Re: No rights, was Re: Syndicomm Scam

[Ivan X <ivan@ivanx.com>]

On Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:28:15 AM UTC-4, Steve Nickolas wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Apr 2013, nyder wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > They sell more of them if priced them decent.  I'd love to try out the 
> 
> > Orca C cross development stuff, but at over $100?  Fuck that.  I can 
> 
> > download Aztec C, program via a emulator for free.
> 
> >
> 
> > I wonder exactly how much money they are making off a product that may 
> 
> > or may not get shipped, when it's so expensive, on a dying platform?
> 
> >
> 
> > I'm not saying people shouldn't get paid, I'm saying the 80's and 90's 
> 
> > are over, we are into 2013 now, get with it.  No one pays that much of 
> 
> > old software, not for TRS-80's, not for C64, not for Amiga's (excluding 
> 
> > the latest versions, not sure wtf they are doing), not for the 
> 
> > Sinclairs, not for any old computers.
> 
> >
> 
> > Actually, the defense of this doesn't surprise me.  It's seems this 
> 
> > community likes getting ripped off based on how many people will throw 
> 
> > money down on preorders of anyone who says they have Apple II cards for 
> 
> > sale, many accelerators.  And you want to defend a person/company who 
> 
> > doesn't ship on time, if at all, and charges some horrible prices on old 
> 
> > software.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad someone else came out and said this.
> 
> 
> 
> For example, I don't think there's a single 65816 C compiler targetting 
> 
> the Apple IIgs that doesn't cost at least one limb - and the documentation 
> 
> for the firmware costs a couple limbs.  Being on a fixed income due to 
> 
> disability makes food more important than that and I'd prolly be able to 
> 
> do a lot more with the ][ line if there weren't so much being kept solely 
> 
> in the hands of hoarders who have no interest in doing anything unless it 
> 
> gets them lots of green in the process.
> 
> 
> 
> Sane costs, like less than $20, I'd consider it.
> 
> 
> 
> -uso.

I should know better than to get involved in a discussion like this, but I'll throw out that a) there's much at Syndicomm that I'd like to have if it cost less, and b) it never crossed my mind that those items "should" cost less because Apple II an old platform that's largely fan/community driven. (And that was my reaction before I even knew who Sheppy or Tony were.) An item that is 100% optional to a person's life should cost exactly what its vendor feels like selling it for, and whether or not I feel like paying that price for it is my call, as a potential customer, to make.

Any of us in the community are free to mount an appeal to the vendor to lower the price of things, either individually, or having first gathered the collective voice of the community. But there's no right and wrong here. I could charge $20,000 for Slammer!, and I don't think I'd sell any copies of it, but it's my prerogative to do that if I wish. None of us are *entitled* to free toys just because we want or think we should have them. I don't think that accusing vendors of greed (especially when they have contributed great value to the community) and buyers of stupidity (for the unpardonable sin of good faith) is a good way to help build that community, or achieve the intended goal of cheaper, freer stuff.

As for the issue of timely shipping, I agree that if someone takes money, they are obligated to deliver the product that was described within the time frame described, and provide the option to refund if that obligation can't be met. A more customer-friendly policy would be to take a credit card but not charge it until the item is shipped, which is what most larger companies do with back orders. I realize that's not so easy with PayPal.

TL;dr: You're not entitled to have something be cheap or free just because you want it to be.