Re: AppleTalk to Ethernet bridge software for Mac?

["Mark Cummings" <figjams@primus.com.au>]

>> I found out that installing the Apple LocalTalk Bridge software was
trying
>> to use the printer port but that AppleTalk was still on the modem port.
That
>> must be the default and I couldn't see how to change it anywhere.
>
>You are confusing two independent settings.  The AppleTalk control panel
>and LocalTalk Bridge are completely separate.

not so confused now, thanks.

>The setting in the AppleTalk control panel determines which port the Mac
>itself is using to connect to the AppleTalk network.  Assuming you want
>to use Ethernet, then it must be set to Ethernet.

I changed it to Ethernet, and now it works between my Mac and PC using PC
MACLAN. But does selecting another port, like modem, allow you to connect
two AppleTalk zones or something ?. ie AppleTalk on both Modem and Printer
port ?

<snip>

>> This is why I lost my printer from the printer port and AppleTalk stopped
>> working on the modem port. Anyway I disabled it and reconfigured
AppleTalk
>> to use the printer port, and the printer on the modem port, swapped the
>> cables over and now both are working. I assume LocalTalk Bridge is OK
now,
>
>It won't be.  You must set the AppleTalk control panel to use Ethernet.
>If you have it set to the Printer Port, then LocalTalk Bridge must have
>been disabled - it probably didn't start up due to the printer port
>being used by other software, in this case the AppleTalk protocol stack.
>If you open the LocalTalk Bridge control panel, it will probably say
>that it "will be enabled at startup" (or words to that effect), but
>isn't enabled at present.

you're right, and now I have it working through Ethernet.

>You should be able to get everything working correctly by setting
>AppleTalk to use Ethernet, then restarting.  This will allow LocalTalk
>Bridge to use the printer port.  The Mac should be able to continue
>accessing LocalTalk devices like the ImageWriter II.

Correct again.

<Mark's network from heck ASCII art snipped>
 
>> What I would like to do...
>> 
>> 1. Use the Epson printer from the ClassicII or IIGS on the AppleTalk
side.
>> The Epson is not AppleTalk compatable, I can't use it via the modem port
on
>> the Quadra, so can I use it via the LocalTalk Bridge and the PC1's
printer
>> port (sneaky hey ?)
>> The Epson is a Postscript printer, but I don't think it supports the
>> AppleTalk PAP protocol you mentioned. Is this what the AppleTalked IWII
>> uses. If so the the Epson can't do it.
>
>What model and type of Epson printer is this (inkjet or laser, model
>number)?

It is an Epson 740 Inkjet, and reading some of the PC MACLAN docs it seems
as though it may be possible to use it as a PC networked Apple LaserWriter
because it is PostScript compatable. But I havn't got it to work yet,
because it doesn't come up in the list when I browse the network on the PC.
Still reading the docs, so I havn't given in yet.

>If the Epson doesn't have hardware support for AppleTalk (either
>LocalTalk or Ethernet), then it won't support PAP, which is the
>AppleTalk Printer Access Protocol.

It doesn't, but I'm not convinced it has to on the PC side. Besides how
would you connect it to a PC as an AppleTalk Printer ? Serial port ???

>You might be able to use it with a device like the HP JetDirect (network
>print server), which provides an Ethernet connection to a printer via
>its parallel port.  The JetDirect implements the various network
>protocols, so the printer doesn't need to.  This would allow the Epson
>to be accessed from any networked PC, but access from a networked Mac
>(using AppleTalk protocols) requires that the printer have a
>bidirectional parallel port.  I'm not sure whether there are any
>additional requirements, as I've only used it with a printer which
>supports AppleTalk directly.  I know that it does work with several HP
>Deskjet models which in themselves don't have AppleTalk support.

Was your's an Apple LaserWriter on the PC ? If so, how was it physically
connected ? Parallel ?

>Assuming it worked, then you would be able to print to it from both PCs,

I already can from any PC on the Ethernet side.

>all Macs, and as long as its Postscript implementation is old enough (or
>sufficiently backward compatible), you might even be able to access it
>from the IIgs.  I haven't had a lot of success printing to my HP
>LaserJet 6MP (which has a genuine Adobe Postscript implementation) from
>my IIgs.

I'm still trying to work out how to make it appear as an Apple LaserWriter
or some other way.

>> 2. Connect to the internet from the Classic II or IIGS via PC1's IP
sharing
>> program.
>
>This part I'm not sure about, because it would depend on the behaviour
>of the MacIP support in the Quadra.  You would probably have to run
>TCP/IP routing software on this machine, and I don't know how this would
>interact with LocalTalk Bridge.  I know that Vicom Softrouter/Internet
>Gateway supports MacIP, but don't know whether IPNetRouter does.
>
>This would allow the Classic II to access the Internet, as long as you
>are running System 7.5.x (or later) with Open Transport, or have
>installed the appropriate classic networking control panels (primarily
>MacTCP) under 7.5.x or earlier.

I havn't tried yet, but I did add Open Transport and PPP to it, which wasn't
loaded. Still more setting up to do yet.

>I don't know enough about the available TCP/IP support on the IIgs to be
>able to evaluate whether it would be feasible to get it to work in such
>a configuration.  The issue is whether it will be able to use the MacIP
>protocol running over AppleTalk (as opposed to an Ethernet card or a
>direct serial connection using PPP or SLIP).

Haven't tried anything there yet either.

>> 3. Access the PC shared vols from the Quadra, Classic II or IIGS.
>
>Running NT Server or PCMacLan would be one solution for the Macs (as
>noted earlier, there may be problems with the user authentication method
>supported by the IIgs).

Actually it works just fine, on the Macs and GSs. The volume mounts just
like any other AppleShare vol. And one bonus is not having the same
limitation placed on file naming when using PC floppy's to transfer files.
This means less renaming of files and a lot less wear and tear on the PC and
Mac and GS floppy drives. It's really cool moving some files from a CD drive
on the PC to the Mac's HDD all from the GS. OK slow, but cool. :)

>> 4. Access the Quadra or Classic II vols from PC1 or PC2 via the LocalTalk
>> Bridge.
>
>PCMacLan should allow one PC to access all Macs running File Sharing.

It does on the PC with PC MACLAN. And I have yet to try it, but I assume it
will work on all PC's running with PC MACLAN. It certainly doesn't work on
the PC that doesn't have it.

>DAVE would allow all PCs to access one Mac, but I don't know whether it
>runs on a 68K Mac.

I think there was a 68K version, but PC MACLAN looked better all round so
I'm using that.

>> 5. Print on the IWII from the PC1 or PC2 via the LoalTalk Bridge on the
>> Quadra.
>
>Hm.  (Scratching head.)
>
>PCMacLan, maybe.  I don't know what its printing support is like.

Scratch no more... I can say I was thrilled to find that it does work. The
AppleTalk ImageWriter II can be added to the printers folder just like any
other network printer. OK, slightly harder. You have to specify the
CITOH-8510 driver on the PC. Also you have to start the Print Server in PC
MACLAN. I could not find this printer on the other PC, but again I assume
that it's because no AppleTalk software is loaded.

>DAVE, maybe (by creating a shared printer for the PCs to access, but it
>would probably require leaving the Quadra set to use the ImageWriter
>II).

don't know.

>> I don't have the Quadra configured to use the ethernet for AppleTalk, I
have
>> it set to use the printer port. Otherwise, wouldn't that stop my
AppleTalk
>> stuff from working on the AppleTalk side ?
>
>No - LocalTalk Bridge implements the AppleTalk protocol via the printer
>port.  The AppleTalk control panel must be set to use a different port.

yep got it, thanks again David.

Mark