Re: LocalTalk/AppleShare between IIgs and Mac LC 575 - how?

[dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson)]

Rodney Hester <rod3@mindspring.com> wrote:

> What I would like to accomplish is fairly simple - I'd like to be able to
> share files between my Mac LC 575 and Apple IIgs via some sort of cheap
> networking solution.  Best I can tell, LocalTalk and AppleShare fit the bill
> nicely.

They sure do.

> What I don't know is how to go about this - I've never even seen a LocalTalk
> network in my life.  Having done all the reading I think I can usefully do
> on the Web, I've come to the following (probably wrong) conclusions and
> questions:
> 
> - I think I need some sort of "Y" cable on the IIgs side, since my printer
> (ImageWriter II) is currently plugged into the printer port, where the
> LocalTalk "splitter" presumably goes.

Are you using the modem port on the IIgs?  If not, then you can set the
IIgs to use the modem port for AppleTalk, and leave the ImageWriter
connection intact.

If you are using the IIgs modem port, then it will be necessary to
reconfigure the computer each time you switch the printer port between
AppleTalk and the ImageWriter II.

One way to eliminate this problem would be to get hold of the LocalTalk
networking card for the ImageWriter II, in which case you can leave
AppleTalk permanently active, provided you have appropriate wiring and
always boot through GS/OS if you want to use the printer (under normal
circumstances you can't print to an AppleTalk printer on a IIgs if you
boot via ProDOS-8, but will be able to print in ProDOS-8 programs if you
boot GS/OS with the necessary drivers installed).

For the cabling you have two major options:

(a) For a temporary network connection between the two computers, you
can simply unplug the cable from the ImageWriter II and plug it into the
Mac.

(b) For a permanent LocalTalk network between the Mac, IIgs and
ImageWriter II, you will need a proper cabling system.  There are two
standard cabling systems, which cannot be mixed.  In both cases, you
need a "drop box" for each device on the network (three in total, in
this case), as well as two cables to connect the network in daisy-chain
fashion.

The two cabling system options are Apple's "LocalTalk" cabling system,
and the third party "PhoneNet" system (or equivalents).

Apple's LocalTalk cabling uses specially made cables to connect the drop
boxes, with Mini-Din-3 connectors.  The drop boxes usually have
automatic termination, so you don't need to worry about this issue.

The PhoneNet cabling system uses standard telephone cable with RJ-11
plugs to connect the drop boxes.  You must insert a termination resistor
in the unused connectors at each end of the network.  (One is usually
supplied with each PhoneNet drop box.)

Back when all this was current, LocalTalk cabling was rather expensive,
and PhoneNet was relatively cheap.  Nowadays you could probably get
either type second hand without paying too much.

> - Once the hardware end of things is settled down, on to software...from
> what I understand, it's not possible to mount the IIgs drives on the Mac,
> only the reverse.  Do my shared Mac folders/drives appear on the IIgs
> desktop as "hard drives" or somesuch?

Correct.  If you've ever used file sharing between two Macs, the process
is very similar between a Mac and IIgs (after you have the necessary
software installed on the IIgs).

On the IIgs, you use the AppleShare panel in the Control Panels NDA to
log onto the server (this is the equivalent of the Chooser item on the
Mac).  After you have logged on, an icon appears on the desktop for each
server volume.

> - What software setup is required on both machines?  I am running System
> 7.5.5 on the Mac and GS/OS 6.0.1 on the IIgs.  If I understood correctly,
> the Mac has to act as an AppleShare server, and I have to have some sort of
> network client on the IIgs.  Can anyone provide more specifics?

The Mac should have everything you need already installed.

The main steps are:

1. Enable AppleTalk.  If you are using classic networking, this is done
in the Chooser.  If you are using Open Transport, you should use the
AppleTalk control panel to configure and enable AppleTalk for the Mac's
printer port.

2. Go into the Sharing Setup control panel and enter a machine name,
owner name and owner password.  Click on the "Start" button to turn on
file sharing.  It will probably take several minutes the first time you
do this.

If you aren't concerned about security, you can use the owner name and
password to log on from the IIgs.  If you'd like to set up the IIgs to
have restricted access to the Mac, you need to create a user account for
the IIgs, which is done via the Users & Groups control panel.

3. If you are going to log on to the Mac using the owner name and
password, you should be done.  If you have created a user account for
the IIgs, you must also turn on sharing for the entire hard drive volume
or for one or more shared folders on the hard drive.  This is done via
the "Sharing..." item in the Finder's File menu.

One final point: if you intend to access anything on the server from a
ProDOS-8 application, your server's hard drive or top level shared
folder must be limited to ProDOS-8 naming conventions (no more than 15
characters, using letters, digits and the period; in particular, no
spaces).  The same rule applies to any folders or files within the
volume or shared folder which need to be accessed from ProDOS-8.

GS/OS is able to handle the full range of Macintosh filenames.


Setting up the IIgs is a little more involved, since you have to install
some software.

1. Turn on AppleTalk in the Control Panel.  The precise details vary
depending on whether you have a ROM 1 or ROM 3 IIgs.  For ROM 1, you
must set slot 1 to "Your Card" and slot 7 to "AppleTalk".  For ROM 3,
you must set slot 1 to "AppleTalk".  (If you are going to use the modem
port instead of the printer port, substitute slot 2 for slot 1 in these
instructions.)

2. Assuming you have a hard drive, boot from the System 6.0.1 Install
disk, go into the Customize option, and install the "Network:
AppleShare" item onto your hard drive's startup partition.  This will
include all the software required to connect to the Mac.  If you manage
to get hold of a LocalTalk card for your ImageWriter II, you should also
install the drivers for supporting network printing (I forget which item
this is in the installer).

If you don't have a hard drive, you will have much more difficulty
dealing with the network.  It is possible to create a system disk on an
800K floppy which allows you to log on to the server, but in order to
fit everything onto this disk, it is necessary to remove the Finder,
which makes the machine rather difficult to manage.  There is an item in
the installer which sets up a disk with this particular combination.

3. Once you have the AppleShare software installed, boot from your
updated system.  During startup it will ask you to enter a user name
(for the first time only).  If you are going to log onto the Mac using
the owner name, then enter the same name here, otherwise enter the name
you assigned to the account you created for the IIgs.

4. When you get to the desktop, you can log onto the Mac by going into
the Control Panels NDA (under the Apple menu) and choosing the
AppleShare item.  You should see the Macintosh's machine name appear in
the list on the right side of the window.  Double click on this, and you
will be presented with a login dialog.

Enter the user name and password as required, then click OK.  Assuming
it was accepted, you will be presented with another dialog box which
lets you select the volumes you want to access.  After getting past this
step, the icon for the Mac's hard drive (or the shared folder) should
appear on the IIgs desktop, and you can treat it just like a local
volume.

For added convenience, create an alias to the server, and use it to log
on next time.  You will be prompted for the password again, but you can
get it to save the password in the alias so subsequent logons are dead
easy.

If you don't have a hard drive on the IIgs, then you won't be running
Finder, which makes it rather tricky to deal with the Mac for copying
files and similar tasks.  It may be possible to install a copy of Finder
on the Mac and launch it once you've connected, or run it from a second
800K floppy (only practical if you have two 3.5" drives).


As far as the cabling goes: if you are having to switch back and forth
between the ImageWriter (without a LocalTalk card) and the AppleTalk
network, you will need to do the following steps.

To switch back to a direct printer connection:

1. Set slot 1 back to Printer Port (and on a ROM 1, also set slot 7 to
Your Card).

2. If you want to avoid two annoying error messages during startup, you
will have to disable the "SCC.Manager" file in */System/Drivers, and
"AppleShare.FST" in */System/FSTs.

3. Reboot.

To switch back to AppleTalk, reverse the above steps.

If you are using a networked ImageWriter II, you need to select the
printer through the "Network Printer" item in the Control Panel NDA.
After doing this, it should be available in all GS/OS programs, and in
most ProDOS-8 programs (by printing to the AppleTalk slot, i.e. slot 7
for a ROM 1, slot 1 for a ROM 3).

Incidentally, with a networked ImageWriter II, you will also be able to
print to it from the Mac.  You may need to locate a copy of the
AppleTalk ImageWriter driver, as it hasn't been updated since System
7.1, and was no longer installed by default some time around System 7.6
or 8.0.

> - I understand that the connection will be slooooooow...I've read several
> places that likened it to the speed of a floppy drive.  Since that's exactly
> the process I'm trying to eliminate, that suits my purposes just fine.  =)

LocalTalk runs at 230400 bps, but you don't get to use all of the
bandwidth for data transfer.  The effective transfer rate would peak at
about 20 KB per second if both machines are fast enough, though I'd
expect more typical rates in the ballpark of 10 to 15 KB per second.

An Apple II 5.25" floppy transfers raw data at 250000 bps.  Once you
take out the overhead of the encoding, sector interleaving, seek times,
etc., you get an effective rate of about 11 KB per second.

An 800K 3.5" drive is about twice as fast (possibly four times as fast
in ideal conditions), so LocalTalk comes in faster than a 5.25" drive
but slower than a 3.5" drive.

Don't forget that there is added convenience of not having to shuffle
disks around - if you are transferring a large amount of data, you can
just walk away and leave the machines to it.  Go for a relaxing walk.
Have a nap.  Whatever.  :-)

(Even 100Base-T Ethernet seems slow when you are trying to transfer
gigabytes of data.  The Apple II is in a smaller world, thank goodness.)

> I'm also aware of the limitations of ProDOS naming conventions and other
> filesystem limitations (such as no 8-bit applications run across the
> network), which is fine, as all I plan to do is limited filesharing.

These limitations may not be as restrictive as you think.

Most ProDOS-8 and GS/OS applications can be launched from the server.
You are only likely to run into problems with programs like AppleWorks
which need to store data files in particular places, and even then the
problems are only likely to occur if you try to run the application from
multiple client computers.

As noted above, the naming restrictions only apply if you are running
ProDOS-8 applications.

> It's also my understanding that both HFS and ProDOS drives/folders on the
> Mac can  be shared...I'm assuming more than one at once.

I don't think you can share ProDOS volumes on the Mac.  You would
normally use HFS for everything.

The AppleShare protocol hides the details of the server filesystem from
the client - the IIgs is completely unaware that the Mac happens to be
using HFS.  You don't even need the HFS File System Translator on the
IIgs, and ProDOS-8 won't have any trouble either, as long as you follow
the naming restrictions.

> (If it is more than one, is there a fixed or practical limit?)

Under GS/OS, there will be a maximum limit of 63 mounted volumes, though
I imagine it will get unmanageable well before this.

Under ProDOS-8, the limit is hard to define.  You should be able to have
a total of around 14 volumes, either local or mounted from the server
(the limit may be a little lower depending on the number of units in
each slot).  In some cases, you might be able to access more than this.

In the majority of cases, it would be rare to have more than one or two
server volumes mounted (e.g. the hard drive and a removable device such
as a CD-ROM or Zip disk).

> - Is it strictly necessary to run a "network" as such (i.e. can I dispense
> with the whole login/authentication/rights thing and just be the AppleShare
> equivalent of "root" on both sides of the house)?

Logging in as the owner will bypass all the sharing settings on the Mac,
giving you full access to all mounted volumes, so this will reduce the
number of steps required to set up the Mac.

Setting up an alias as described above makes the login process very easy
after you've done it once.  If the Mac is on most of the time, you can
even get the IIgs to mount a volume automatically as it boots - there is
an option for this in the volume selection dialog.

You can't completely bypass the login mechanism.

> I realize I may well have opened Pandora's Box here, but there's no easier
> way I can find to go about this other than just dive in.  I'm sure some
> people will shy away from responding because the answer is likely more
> complex than I currently realize, but if some folks with good knowledge
> about this stuff (even better those who have done what I seek to do) could
> step in, I (and hopefully others) would benefit a great deal.

Been there, done it, bought the T-Shirt.  :-)

(I've now dismantled the network, as I'm not using the IIgs on a regular
basis, and it is a hassle dealing with a mixed Ethernet/LocalTalk
network, especially as my 7600's modem port was damaged and I'm using
the printer port to connect to my modem.)