Re: Asimov Site

[Roy and/or Janet Miller <millers@inetnebr.com>]

Paul Schlyter wrote:

>
> >> I live in a country, Sweden, which currently has a Socialist
> >> government.  Does that mean you think our governemnt could as well
> >> have been a Fascist government?
> >
> > Mirror image. Check out the meaning of the terms Mirror Image, and Fascist.
> > Or do you need me to supply them to you?
>
> So you're claiming I'm living in a dictatorship, with little freedom of speech?
>
> Or do you use the term "mirror image" as something completely opposite?  Well,
> I could agree with that.....

No, not completely opposite. In a Fascist state, industry is privately owned, but
State controlled. In a Socialist state, industry is stated owned and controlled. In
other words, no real difference. While it is true that there has (to my knowledge)
never been a democratic Fascist state, it isn't impossible, just as it isn't
impossible to have a democratic Socialist state. This, BTW is what Mrs. Clinton had
proposed in her health care plan some 6 years ago. Doctors, pharmaceutical
companies and hospitals would all be privately owned, but they would have to do
what the government told them to do, in setting policies and prices. Both are
equally pernicious. Both rob people of power over their own lives. So does a
monopolistic capitalism, which is why I favor the breakup of Microsoft, as I
favored the breakup of AT&T. Smaller companies who have a real opportunity to
compete are better for the general good. In this country most people are employed
by small businesses, not major corporations.

>
>
>
> >> Please be a little more careful to distinguish Socialism from
> >> Communism.
> >
> > I was careful. I did distinguish them. but if you want a pithy summary,
> > it's Lame and Crippled.
>
> Thanks for your very balanced view... <g>    now, is Socialism the Lame
> one, or the Crippled one?   :-)))))))))))))))))))))
>
>
> >> Also, please remember that both of them were born as a
> >> reaction against the Capitalism of the 1800's and earlier -- a
> >> Capitalism which didn't have to "carry the burden" of democracy.
> >
> > In the United States, in the 1800s, we had both Capitalism and a democratic
> > republic.
>
> That's when your forefathers abducted black people from Africa to
> sell as slaves, right?  And they killed off native americans too......
> is that your view of democracy?

My forefathers were Scotch-Irish, and Swiss and Norwegian peasants. My paternal
great grandfather didn't even arrive in this country until the 1880s. And 90% of
the men who wore gray during the War of Northern Aggression never owned a single
slave. I wonder how much of Sweden the Lapps once owned...?

>
> Perhaps you view Nazi Germany as a good democratic example too?  They too
> had racism -- and Hitler got to power by a democratic election, in 1933...
> (don't take this last sentence too seriously -- it was intended to be
> heavily ironic.  I'm not suggestiong you actually have nazi sympathies)

I hate the Nazi for three reasons: 1) They were the enemies of personal freedom; 2)
They were racists (my son-in-law is of Zulu descent, and I'm proud to call him
"son"); 3) They were anti-Christian pagans.

>
>
>
> > Even Great Britain was developing a democratic element to it's constitution.
>
> To have "democratic elements" and to "be a democracy" is not quite
> the same thing.  Ancient Greece had some "democratic elements" and is
> often considered the birthplace of democracy, but since that society
> officially endorsed slavery, it cannot be considered a democracy in a
> modern sense.

Now that is arrogant. Democracy is a greek word, and the concept was born in
Athens. Great Britain didn't become a democratic state overnight (and I doubt that
Sweden did either) but she kept progressing. Both of those countries had monarchies
and aristocracies and developed into full blown democracies. But Great Britain has
been ruled by Parliament since the English Civil War, long before the time that you
admit that Sweden gave up it's aggressor status.

Roy

>
>
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Paul Schlyter,  Swedish Amateur Astronomer's Society (SAAF)
> Grev Turegatan 40,  S-114 38 Stockholm,  SWEDEN
> e-mail:  pausch at saaf dot se   or    paul.schlyter at ausys dot se
> WWW:     http://hotel04.ausys.se/pausch    http://welcome.to/pausch