Re: Asimov Site

[pausch@saafNOSPAM.se (Paul Schlyter)]

In article <ovkq5.75185$rd1.13134486@typhoon-news1.southeast.rr.com>,
**** **** <***@***.com> wrote:
 
>>> Roy, it might suprise you, but you can still remain a non-marxist,
>>> and see the flaws in capitalism, especially corporatism. \
>>
>> What is corporatism? Where does it prevail? How, if at all, does it bear
>> upon capitalism? Please supply facts and sources.
> 
> Ah. Nice way to change the subject. You see the flaws in capitalism, but
> rather than acknowledge anything I say, you simply ignore that I said it.
 
Well, Roy always seems to be defending "his" system, with flaws,
rather tha acknowledging the benefits other systems may have.  Read
his response to my description of our "everybody's right", which
enables people to freely walk around as long as they don't destroy
and don't disturb.  Roy pointed out that this freedom to move around
has its restrictions because one isn't allowed to destroy or disturb
(which of course is correct, but it appeared he thought of it as a
disadantage rather than mutual care), and then he concluded that he
preferred to remain on his own land and everyone else should remin on
theirs (a thought: many people don't have any land of their own --
where should they go?).  He didn't claim his system, was the ultimate
"freedom" though....
 
> Corporatism could be said to be the extreme of capitalism, as Stalinism
> could be said to be the extreme of Marxism. In the most specific sense,
> corporatism is the philosophy that not only should the law allow business
> entities with no individual accountability, but that these same
> corporations are in some way arbitrarily superior to any other citizen. That
> these corporations have unwritten privileges to negotiate their own taxes,
> and an open door to the legislature that few citizens enjoy. Guess these
> aren't facts though. Well, blind or stupid, you'll still hurt as much as the
> rest of us. That kinda makes me feel better.
 
I.e. it's just an example of "...money is justice..."
 
>> 1. I don't think that capitalism "sucks", but some capitalists are rather
>> nasty people
>
> Ah. The idea that all things exist to be bought and sold, is ok with you.
> Even though it means people also, and discovered land whether or not there
> are indigenous people on it (they are just another resource to be exploited
> on said land anyway!). No, not "some" capitalists, MANY capitalists are
> nasty people. A large minority at least, and that is being generous.
 
Perhaps Capitalism tranforms people to become like that?  Give any nice
ordinary fellow a very large amount of money, and watch him transform into
something else....
 
> I am
> willing to bet that those who fall into your 'not nasty' category aren't die
> hard capitalists either, just people living however seems the most
> convenient. Capitalism is a BAD idea. I don't deny there are worse ideas
> (communism, etc), and I don't have a clear BETTER idea as of the moment.
>
> If people could somehow be taught to feel that they are caretakers, and not
> owners.... of land, of possessions. If they could be taught to trust, and be
> trustworthy. If they could be taught that you don't have to be compensated
> for everything you do immediately, without it turning into usury, the world
> would be a better place. The cool thing though, is that maybe, just maybe,
> those things might not have to happen first. Maybe those are the effects,
> it's the cause that we need to look for
 
-- 
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