Re: WHO???

[wbdesnoy@acs2.acs.ucalgary.ca (Byron Desnoyers Winmill)]

Jeff Blakeney (CUTblakeney@home.com) wrote in response to Byron:
: >significant social value is allowed to survive.  But I would also argue that
: >those same laws define an unreasonable period to preserve works of
: >significant social value.

: This is the point where I always say, if you don't like the law, try
: to get it changed.  If it isn't changed then it is still the law and
: we must obey it.  :)

Which is what I suggested a long time ago.  At this point, it has no impact
upon my work (though copyrights are more lax for academic purposes) and I
am not ready to standup for this moral cause.  But I would suggest that the
people who are active in pirating Apple II software do.  Remember, it is
against the law, and you have a moral obligation to uphold that law.

: I'm all for archiving the software and I'd love to see a way for
: people to restore their dead originals.  I don't know what the legal
: implications of this are and there doesn't seem to be an easy way to
: do either of these tasks.  It would take a lot of work.

If memory serves me correct, current copyright laws give you the right to
create one archival copy for backup purposes only.  I think that Canadian
copyright law also gives people the right to modify program code for
internal uses only.  Or that was my interpretation of some material which
I read.  Both of these are in strong discord with most software licence
agreements!

: When I say archive, I don't mean an FTP site which turns around and
: illegally distributes the software it is supposedly archiving.  That,
: I know for a fact, is illegal.

Yes, piracy FTP sites should be killed.  These are not archival sites!  If
they were really interested in "restoring" dead copies of software they would
ask for a proof of ownership first!  This includes sites for emulation.\

: Ah, but now you've thrown a wrench into the works here.  Affordable is
: a very subjective term.  To many, spending $200 US for an accelerator
: card for a 10-12 year old computer is just foolish but to others it is
: a good deal.  All I was saying was that the stuff is available if you

Affordability is the real part of a complex function which includes age,
the price-performance ratio, the potential utility, the potential for
enjoyment, and condition of the product as variables. 

But it never exceeds $25 CAN unless there is significant utility.

: >and can confirm that that is half the price.  Come to think of
: >it, I paid less for a fully equiped compact Macintosh and
: >ClarisWorks than I did for my adequate IIgs.

: That's because Macs and Mac software aren't worth as much as Apple IIs
: and Apple II software.  :)

But the utility of a 68k Mac is significantly higher.  Mostly because many
of these models can be upgraded to 4Mb of RAM with little or no expense.
The IIgs requires a special card to go beyond the built in memory.

: Seriously, there are a lot more used Macs and used Mac software on the
: market right now than Apple II stuff so it just makes sense that the
: Mac stuff will be cheaper.  Older PC stuff can be had for a song now
: too.

Yep.  People give me really strange looks when I pickup a pillaged XT for
a buck or so.  But the RAM is like gold to me.  I have lots of non-IBMs
which I want to try to upgrade.  And heck, it is for a good cause.  ;-)
(Besides, it is probably cheaper getting the screws from these pillaged
machines than it would to get some at your hardware store.)

: But the IIgs is so much more than a IIe!  If it wasn't I probably
: would have switched to PCs full time.  :)

Don't remind me.  I really miss OS/2.  But you must admit that there is a
fun factor in running such old machines! 

: I can understand what you're saying, though.  I upgraded my IIe to a
: IIgs and used it as a fast IIe for a least a year before I got the
: extra hardware I needed to actually use it as a IIgs.

Yes, it takes patience.

: In high school I used TRS-80 and Commodore computers.  I heard the
: name Apple once between grade 9 and 10.  When I moved to Germany and
: started grade 11, the computer store there got in Apple IIe systems
: and I got my parents to buy me one after I played with it in the store
: and read a couple Apple II magazines.  :)

Yep, the Germans sure have good taset in computers.  ;-)

: Never underestimate the power of haggling.  :)

: Again, there are a lot more high density drives available for the Macs
: and PCs then there are double density drives available for the Apple
: II so it stands to reason that they will cost a little more.  If you
: can find stuff locally, you will definitely be better off.

Rarity is never an excuse for expense.  Unless you are down to the last
few, then they really do belong in museums or archives.  But really, the
Apple 3.5" drives are simply a Macintosh drive in an external case.  How
much work would it be for somebody to design a proper cable and a suitable
replacement board for the inside, to give everybody one?  It does not look
all that bad.

: We have a buy and sell "magazine" here that allows individuals to
: place free ads.  I've seen Apple II stuff in there from time to time.
: If I ever feel I have the room, I'll post a want ad in there sometime
: too.

Our paper has had an "Apple II, only six years old," in it for $300 for
about a year.  I called the guy, it is an ordinary IIc.  Nothing special
about it.  It may not even have a monitor.  I have picked up about three
of these over the years, and saw two more when I repaired computers for
a local thrift store.  Good grief.

Byron.