Re: How Things Change and How They Stay the Same

["Donald C. Lee" <dlee17@ccsf.cc.ca.us>]

Beverly,

      The system MAY be changed.  During the first few years I was here,
there was much discussion among the regulars to "moderation" of this
newsgroup.  This would hopefully eliminate much of the junk that was
spewing from this group.  Obviously as you can see, nothing was ever done
and CSA2 continues on.  

      If you want to keep the current system then CSA2 will stay as is.
We simply do not have any control over what people want to post.  If we
did, then this newsgroup might turn into another Delphi, where only
"certain" people can be heard and others who may get left out.  I don't
think that is particularly ideal either.  

      As for why civility isn't possible....well I really don't know.  But
let me try to explain some of the reasons for war on CSA2:

Charles Turley - He's been around ever since the time I've started on the
group.  Never mind what good or bad he's done in CSA2, he's been the
subject of scorn by MANY members of this group.  Joe, Nathan, etc.....have
each weighed in with what they think of Mr. Turley many times for all of
us to see.  

     Mr. Turley, obviously feeling a little victimized, has responded and
BOOM, you have a flamefest.  Others have also weighed in their opinions
defending Mr. Turley and you have a lot of posts not really relating to
the Apple II.  

Piracy - Asimov (and other controverisal issues, right now it is
"Copyrights") - If you're new, count yourself lucky as you didn't have to
deal with the rage over using the archive from Asimov.  I mean, when this
came up, it was a few of the regulars (i forget specifically who) who
argued that copyrights for the A2 software on Asimov were still valid.
Then you got the other side who said "Who Care?  It's 10 year old software
that isn't being sold anymore."  

     SO, what isn't civility possible?  You have an establishment of
veterans (Joe, Nathan, and others) who dislike Turley a TON and will not
hide that fact.  Then you have Turley and a few others who dislike the
establishment and will try to fight them at every turn.  The topic doesn't
necessarily have to be Turley either.  Bring up a topic that needs a
strong opinion and you'll get it (from all sides).  

     And as long as people are allowed to post anything they want, this
will always be the case (IMO).  We can't "stop" Turley from posting
copyrighted material or other people's email (we can only remind him to
ask before he does it), just as we can't "stop" all the others who have
posted on this topic the past couple of weeks. 

     Can this group improve?  Sure it can, but everyone has to realize it,
not just a small number of users.  THe majority of the users have to work
at keeping the peace and remember that is newsgroup is about the Apple II
and not a place for flames.  

     Just as a side, one of the best newsgroups I read is the one for the
Golden State Warriors basketball team.  The number of participiants is
pretty small but the discussion there is great (I lurk most of the time).
A lot of intelligent discussion and very little (if any) flames.  

Don

Donald Lee
http://www.geocities.com/tokyo/bay/6073

On 5 Aug 1999, TEXAS II - AppleWorks wrote:

> > At first, I tried to change the
> system, but like you, I found out that it was an impossible task.
> 
> No, let's change the system. What is impossible is the current state of this
> board. It cannot continue this way. Still terribly dumb and naiive after 1 year
> on the web,  I have some ideas (and a pretty good web site!). If some of the
> really furious people would like to contact me {Richard}, let's talk about it.
> Or maybe someone can explain to me why civility is impossible.
> 
> Beverly Cadieux 
> The Apple II Mail Group - http://members.aol.com/A2MG
> 
> 
>