Re: Nathan and the Apple Community.

[supertimer@aol.com (Supertimer)]

!smentzer@ecom.net (Steve Mentzer) wrote:

>>It goes a little beyond that...Asimov's policy of "pirate first, ask
>>questions later" is a little obtuse.  Perhaps it would be best to
>>ask first.  People tend to get upset when the A2's remaining
>>prized commercial software, like Proterm 3.1 or AppleWorks 5.1,
>>are put on the site.  Since these publishers are so clearly
>>available for contact, why not ask before touching?  When
>>something like PT3.1 is pirated this way, it makes people who
>>will write new things to for the GS stop.  
>
>And you know what? PT3.1 and AW5.1 were removed when the copyright holder let 
>the site admin know that the files should not be there. Yes, since it was 
>common knowledge that the distributors and copyright holders still existed,
the 
>files should have NEVER been there in the first place.
>
>But your policy of "track down the most-likely-non-existant-company and 
>make-sure-they-remember-the-apple2-software-they-sold and 
>try-to-explain-to-some-legal-department-what-an-apple2-is, and then ask them
to 
>give away something for free" would propably be an extremely time consuming 
>process. And most likely your answer would be NO.
>
>Hunting down companies who propably don't exist is not a viable alternative. 
>If it is viable, then you can go do it. In the mean time I am gonna play
bard's 
>tale

Like I said, who cares about 20+ year old titles.  I'm not Nathan.  ;-)

I am saying even after Asimov was given the URL to both
Scantron and Intrec, they insisted on sticking to that idiotic
"pirate first and ask later"...wait, that should be "and refuse
to remove until specifically contacted by publisher" policy.
It would be more conducive to continued production of new
software if they instead remove it when it is PROVEN THAT
THE SOFTWARE IS STILL BEING SOLD BY THE
PUBLISHER.  Simple as that.

>>>Helping is good, converting all the .shk files to .dsk is NOT.  Do
>>you know how much more difficult it would be to download software
>>for real Apple IIs?  Real A2 will always come first.  Emulators
>>second.
>
>why? give me one good reason why...

Because no one will write software for emulators.  The guy
who posted the original flame asked why the legit sites
like ground seem to cater to real A2 users first and why
they insist on .shk files.  The answer is simple...the legit
sites as a policy don't carry the stuff Asimov carries.  They
depend on upload of newly written shareware/freeware or
previously written shareware/freeware.  People who write
this software use real A2 units.  Real A2 units have a hell
of a time using .dsk archives, especially the GS where
many programs, musics, stacks, graphics, and what not
routinely take more than 143k.  Thus, on these legit sites,
real A2 users WILL ALWAYS come first.

Emulator users ALREADY have a site where they come
first...Asimov.

Everyone should be happy.  It is only when the emulator
users cross over into comp.sys.apple2 and want ground
converted to a .dsk repository that problems appear.

>>Wrong.  Comp.sys.apple2 is mainly for real A2 users.
>
>wrong. comp.sys.apple2 is for anyone, regardless of what computer type you 
>have. This is no discrimination here. We are here to be helpful to everyone.

By the csa2 charter, comp.sys.apple2 is mainly for real
A2 users.  Comp.emulators.apple2 is mainly for emulator
users.  I will answer the occasional emulator question
(always have) but that does not change this...and I will
refer them to comp.emulators.apple2 for better answers.
That's just the way the groups were meant to be.  Some
crossover is inevitable, but surely, questions are best
answered in the appropriate group...SYSTEM vs. EMULATORS.

>And for the record, CSA2 is *very* elitist group of folks. We need to be more 
>open.

Nathan may have been.  However, when I say ground
is within reason to support .shk and comp.sys.apple2
is mainly for real A2 users, that's not elitist at all.
(same kind of referring emulators to emulator groups
occur in comp.sys.cbm, so we are NOT elitist in this
respect)...

>>XGS does not cut it for me.  It can't do the things my real GS can
>>do.  If I were a IIe user, then maybe an emulator would cut it...
>>
>
>XGS is a pile of shit (I will agree with you just once). I know,I have been 
>working on a rewrite for some time.

Of course because I'm always right.  ;-)

Just kidding...I'm not Nathan.  Still, think about what I
said.  It is DEAD WRONG to try to convert ground into a
.dsk repository or shift comp.sys.apple2 to an emulators
first group (that title is with comp.emulators.apple2).

We real A2 users got to have our space too.  Emulator
users ALREADY HAVE an NG and an archive.