Re: Awks stuff (and HyperCard manual) and ...

[Rubywand <rubywand@swbell.net>]

escobedo writes ...
> 
> In article <3581F08C.2E562F9F@swbell.net>, rubywand@swbell.net wrote:
> 
> > >
> > > All kidding aside, you made your point so much more elegantly than
> > > Dickhead Mates ever could. After tasting AW 2 from Asimov, perhaps your
> > > comments can convince someone to *purchase* AW 3, given that it is, in
> > > fact, superior to AW 2.
> >
> >
> >      Fine. But Alltech does not list Awks 3; and, Bev says that SQC is
> > not selling it, either. Meanwhile, Awks 2 is available. For word
> > processing tasks on a 128k machine, Awks 2 easily beats anything being
> > offered commercially.
> 
> Actually, I was surprised to see that Alltech does list AW 3 for $15.95.
> Check out: http://www.allelec.com/sftwr.htm

     Thanks for the info correction! When checking the page earlier, I
focused upon their A2 "Word Processors" heading. Awks 3 ($15.95,
diskettes only) and Awks GS ($15.00, diskettes only) are listed (under
"Utilities"). One thing which might help prospective Awks 3 buyers is an
"Appleworks Reference Card" which Alltech offers for $1.00.

     By the way, for users looking for HyperCard documentation, Alltech
also lists the Hypercard 1.2.5 Manual for Mac ($7.95) which it says is
"good for GS", too.



> By the way, I'm perfectly happy using AW 2. Nobody is losing any money,
> either, because there is no way I would purchase AW 3.
>

     Neither would I; but, that is mainly due to years of using v2.x,
adding Time Out utilities, and becoming accustomed to how everything
works. (And, naturally, on the GS, v5.1 is the obvious choice.)  Bev is
an Awks expert. Perhaps the 128k IIe or IIc user might prefer to give up
a bit of memory space in return for Awks 3 improvements. 



 
 ....

> > > No amount of upgrades, hardware or software, will make *ANY*
> > > Apple II half
> > > as functional as the multitude of $50 486s or Macs flooding the used
> > > markets now. For all intents and purposes, the A2 IS dead.
> > >
> >
> >      For you, perhaps. Our IIgs gets lots of use, including word
> > processing via Awks 5.1. Our PC gets lots of use, too.
> >
> 
> My A2 gets use too. But you're preaching to the choir here. Try convincing
> a newcomer to buy an "old Apple II".

     It's been years since trying to convince someone to buy an Apple
II. One reason is that so many swap meet, garage sale, school sale, etc.
shoppers seem to be doing it on their own.



> "But can I play DOOM?...Can I go on
> the Web?..."are the questions you'll hear. A $25 IIgs can't compare once
> you figure another $50+ to max out the RAM, $50+ for a hard drive, $25+
> for a decent monitor, and heaven forbid, more $$$ for an accelerator.

     Really, these are very optimistic prices. The cost of putting
together a good 1990's GS-- hard disk, SCSI interface, 4MB RAM card,
accelerator, two 3.5" drives, two 5.25" drives, Stereo Board, sound
digitizer input, CD-ROM drive, printer (color monitor, speakers, mouse,
KB, joystick, HS modem cable and NULL modem, ...)-- can easily exceed
that of a low end Pentium PC.


> And
> it STILL can't play DOOM or surf the Web like the $50 486 or MacII.
> Just try to convince a newcomer that they can do without DOOM or that LYNX
> is just as good as Netscape! I hope he/she isn't a friend...'cause they
> won't be for long.
> By the way, the $50 486 I bought came with DOOM and Netscape already loaded.
>

     Which pretty well explains why there is no point in framing the
issue as Apple II OR PC.

     For all the reasons you list, the modern computer user needs a PC.
Still, if someone wants to access the special capabilities of the Apple
II, write programs of interest to II users, and experience the full
range of fun and challenges in Apple II computing, then, he or she needs
an Apple II.    

     An on-going challenge is finding a way to implement modern
technology to significantly boost Apple II capabilities. It is,
certainly, possible to have a II which exceeds PC performance. Once this
happens and a base of users is established, we can have our own DOOM's,
Tomb Raider's, and Netscapes. Then, we can talk about Apple II OR PC
again.


  
 
> > > It is a bit sad that the A2 won't see much more commercial development
> > > because of "pirates".
> >
> >      It would be sad were it true. "Piracy" in Apple II land has become
> > an excuse employed by developers who do not know how to develop software
> > of interest to users.
> >
> 
> You make my point. Reread my following paragraph.
> 
> > > A pragmatic view is that pirating is a fact of life
> > > and the cost of doing business for a software maker. But I think a bigger
> > > factor than pirates is that any money spent on an A2 just won't add much
> > > value.

     Done. My "piracy" objection is to the idea that software piracy has
anything at all to do with discouraging release of new Apple II
products. It is easy to show that the existence of large software
archives promotes interest in II computing, attracts users (including
game players), and _creates_ a market for new software.   

     There _is_ a software market; but, it is (for now) a 'second
computer' market. Everyone owns and spends money on their PC's; money
for Apple II software is limited and, so, A2 software must be priced low
in order to sell. High prices for Apple II software (like $129 for Awks
5 and $40 for Super Convert 4) do not destroy sales because they may
encourage piracy; they destroy sales because hardly anyone is going to
pay high prices for II software period.



> > Obsolescence is inevitable.
> >
> >      Obsolescence is ineviable for all current computers. That is why we
> > are interested in an upgrade path.
> >
> > whereas everyone knows the '486 machines are obsolete pieces
> > of junk.
> 
> I tend to agree. My 486 is a piece of junk. But it works. And I venture to
> say the upgrade path for the 486 is more sensible and more open.

     Sure. You stick your '486 in the attic and buy a new PC. Easy.



> It just seems to me foolish to develop for the Apple II with the intention
> of making a nice profit, pirates or not.
>

 ....

     That depends. For one thing, it helps to know that you are not
going to sell many units of _any_ piece of A2 software if your price is
above $29.95. Pick any application or game you like; beyond $29.95, you
have a very tough sell.

     Since you know your stuff needs to sell cheap, you start by cutting
costs. For example, Awks 5 came in a classy box with a nice manual (Awks
4's), a 5.x Delta Manual, all sorts of separate colored sheets (talking
about this or that special situation, Time Out compatibilities, etc.)
and a nice glossy fold-out Quick Reference Card. This stuff costs a lot
to produce.

     The correct way to sell an Awks 5 is to put the Manual and add-on
sheets on-disk in a data base and add all of your 'getting started'
stuff to the fold-out Quick Reference Card. Stick this in a plastic
baggie along with the diskettes and sell it for $29.95. Your QRC has a
nice colorful "Appleworks 5" front fold-- so, it looks nice in web page
pics-- and Awks 5 sells like hotcakes.

     Another 'trick' is to advertise. You can not sell much of anything
if you keep it a secret.



Rubywand