Re: PLEASE STOP THE MAC AND MICROSOFT MESSAGES

[spec@vax2.concordia.ca (Mitchell Spector)]

In article shack@onyx.southwind.net (Randy Shackelford) writes...

[Lots snipped to try and wind down this thread]

>Mitchell Spector (spec@vax2.concordia.ca) wrote:
>:     The dictionary defines the word abandoned as: "To give up,
>: forsake, desert". Those words sound very much like what Apple
>: did with the machine, unless you have another definition for
>: the same word. ;-)
>
>OK, that applies to 68Ks as much as to Apple IIs. Apple gives lip service
>to them still but in practical terms they've left them behind. Try OS 8
>and Quicktime 3.0 on a 68K if you don't buy that.

    In practical terms they have not. Apple was very careful about
making sure all the 68K software could run on PowerMacintoshes, so
to avoid a repeat of what happened with the Apple II. Back in 1994
(right up until the present) Mac users have been able to migrate
to the new system without losing anything. Compare that to Apple II
and IIgs users migrating to the Macintosh.

>I don't imagine that IIgses were outselling all Mac models combind in '89
>to '90, when most people would say that Apple II support was tailing off.

    Nor do I, but it is not at all surprising when you consider
the Apple IIgs selling in 1990, was the same machine they were
selling back in 1986. Add to that the price remained relatively
untouched in those 4 years, making it look utterely ridiculous
to consider when for the same price or less, you could purchase
a Macintosh with state-of-the-art technology (and equipped with
more memory, a hardrive and high-density floppy drive, superior
video, etc).

    Apple II support began tailing off soon after the GS was
introduced (I cannot think of very much offered beyond that
point, except for some software updates and the occasional
bone thrown at users--like the ROM 3, HS SCSI, VOC, FDHD).

>Coupla points: first, NO Mac hardware I own will work in a G3. Unless you
>a Plaintalk mic I suppose. I'm not counting external hard disks and the like
>since my IIgs can use them as well. Second, less and less software coming out
>runs on 68Ks. Take a look in CompUSA or wherever you see Mac software and see
>how much isn't native only. You won't find much. 68Ks are getting left behind
>in the sense of not having new software since everything requires a Pmac now
>and zero new hardware is coming out. When's the last time you saw a new nubus
>card hyped? But that's progress and a fellow either keeps up or gets left
>behind. I'm planning to make do a little longer until it gets settled whether
>Mac OS X will run on 603/604 Pmacs. I was gonna get one of the sub $1000 8500s
>out there nowadays but I want to make sure it's not a dead end.
>
>You could replace "68K" with "IIgs" in your paragraph up there given an
>emulator. But as for continuing support, 68K Macs and Apple IIs are in
>the same boat now.

    Granted they may be in the same boat, 68K Macintosh users can
easily migrate to the PowerMacintosh and maintain full backwards
compatibility. Apple II users are stuck in the boat, and if they
want to get out, they're going to have to jump in the water and
get wet for awhile (and all traces of their past will get washed
away in the water).

    I think the 68K Mac/PowerMac is akin to the Apple IIe/IIGS.
Support for the Apple IIe started winding down when the GS was
introduced, but you could upgrade to the newer machine and have
full backwards software and hardware compatibility (there was
even a motherboard swap made available for IIe users, just as
Apple has offered motherboard swaps for certain 68K Macintoshes).
There never was a step to take after the GS, you were just left
hanging with no place to go (except start all over again, fresh,
with a Mac, PC, Amiga or some other platform).

>:     Well the thing is there are key things about the 68K built-in
>: to the PowerMac, like the Macintosh Toolbox for example. The only
>: major thing being emulated in those newer boxes are the 68K CPU.
>: A PowerMac running 68K Mac software is very different from F.E.'s
>: Bernie ][ The Rescue running IIgs software.
>
>There isn't much difference on the surface though.

    Yes there is, since your emulating virtually everything in
software, certain types of programs will cause differences in
performance. Take programs that have to emulate sound, that
is going to take a speed hit. Also, a 6100/60 PowerMac is
going to do perfect emulation of a 68K Mac, the same is not
so when you run BTTR on it for IIgs emulation.

Mitchell Spector
spec@vax2.concordia.ca