Re: A Tale of Two Apples

[bjblackbear@ibm.net (B.J. Major)]

<pubpc1@library.ucla.edu> wrote:

> B.J. Major wrote,
> in response to my reply:
> >>Even today, some Mac fans and GS haters still _deliberately_
> >>keep the GS equipped with only 1MB and a 3.5" and a 5.25" floppy
> >>drive.  They will never (or rather, they don't want to) see what
> >>the GS could really do.  They prefer to think that their Mac
> >>Plus ancestor was so great and powerful when the real GS was
> >>superior.
> >>
> >>-Scott G.
> >
> >"GS haters"; Scott, did it EVER occur to you that Mac people like
> >myself who also own GSs (and other Apple II's) wouldn't own them in
> >the *first* place if they "hated" them?  I mean, what would be the
> >point???  We simply would not waste our time with them if we hated
> >them.  C'mon, make some sense here.
> 
> I did not mean to imply that _you_ were a GS hater.  :)
> 
> I'm talking about the Mac folks who regularly post nonsense in our
> newsgroup about the GS not being worth giving away and all that
> trash.

I don't believe those folks are regular readers or contributors to this
group, but are the ones who behave like their PC counterparts who say
the same thing.

> 
> However, I do think that someone who got their GS at a Goodwill
> store for pennies and has its base CPU, no hard disk, and no
> extra memory 

CORRECTION!  I have a 4 meg memory card in there which I bought
separately & added, and right now it's all the memory I need, thanks.
Please don't assume what I have and don't have for my GSs without asking
first!   I only *mentioned* in another post where I was answering a
message from someone else, not yourself, that there was gs native
software written for as little as 256K memory--I know, I have some of
this software.

As for where I purchased the machine, I got a good buy--plain and
simple.  It sounds like you are jealous.  Personally, I don't have
thousands to shell out on machines when they're brand new--especially
because I collect two different types of machines and there are several
different models in each type.  I would rather wait a while after
they're out on the market and get it for much less money, if I can.  I
don't see where my not having a hard disk is your concern, but I do plan
to get one eventually.  My funds have other higher priorities right now.
In the meantime, my Appletalk setup to my Mac SE's additional hard drive
does just fine and runs everything I need (GS native software included)
if I don't want to use the floppy drives (both sizes).

>_and_ does not run any modern GS software cannot truly
> understand how GS users who have used and upgraded their computers
> since the '80s feel.  We're not using our GS machines as fast IIe's,
> B.J.  We prefer to use native software and the thought of using
> only 8-bit software (because one does not equip the GS with
> more than 256K) is to us like owning a PowerMac and only using
> black and white Mac 128 software is to a Mac user!

First off, bad analogy.  It's impossible to use software intended for
use on a Mac 128 on any newer Macs, PowerMacs included.  400K disks
haven't been around for *quite* some time....not to mention that the
first Mac used a different file system.

"Native" software for the GS.????  What do you think *I* use?  I have
plenty of software written specifically for the IIgs that will not run
on my IIe and IIc (Appleworks gs, PrintShop gs, and other apps--as well
as IIgs specific games).  Again, a wrong assumption on your part.  And
yes, it's nice to be able to run the older 8 bit stuff on it too, though
I don't like to keep changing the system's speed from "fast" to
"normal", so I typically run the 8 bit stuff on my IIc or IIe.  I hope
that is satisfactory to you.

BTW, plenty of gs native software exists for 256K memory as well;
several games I have including Paperboy, several Epyx games, and apps
like PrintShop GS will run from a floppy and with 256K.  I'm surprised
that someone like yourself who claims to be a GS expert isn't aware of
this.

> 
> Can you use TrueType fonts under ProDOS 8?  Can you print at 600dpi
> or use Postscript from _every_ program under ProDOS 8?  Can you
> FAX from ProDOS 8?  Can you make TCP/IP connections or web browse
> from ProDOS 8?  Can you format and use Macintosh Zip drives, hard
> drives, and floppies under ProDOS 8?  

I have no need to do ANY of the above on an Apple II because I've been
able to do all of the above on my Macs for some time.  I don't need both
computer systems to duplicate all tasks, it just isn't necessary.  And
as I already stated, I don't use ProDOS 8 on my GS, but ProDOS 16.

>All these tasks and more
> require a properly equipped GS!  

No kidding.

(snip)

> But then don't go around telling _us_ that
> 256K is enough to run GS software.  Many of us still use the GS as
> our primary computer, you know, and we _use_ the machine for the
> above tasks (that an emulated ProDOS 8 IIe can't do).

You will have to point out the exact post and the exact sentence where I
proclaimed that 256K is enough to run *all* GS software for everyone
concerned.  I never said that.  I'm not saying what anyone can or SHOULD
use.  It's up to everyone's wallet, in my opinion.  But YOU are totally
wrong in stating that NO gs native software will run on 256K.  I have
the floppy disks to prove you wrong.

You also seem to have an axe to grind against older Apple ][ machine
users.  There's nothing wrong with an enhanced IIe (or an unenhanced
one, for that matter).  Or a IIc.  Or any of the machines that preceeded
a IIgs.  Please, get off your ProDOS 16 high horse and know that the
entire Apple II computing world may not have the luxury of owning and or
using a IIgs.

> 
> Look, and I hope you are still reading this, I can run black
> and white Mac software (up to System 6) on my little 25MHz
> PC using the Executor Macintosh emulator.  How would you like
> it if after using Executor, I shake my head and say: gee,
> the Mac is cute, but I need my Intel box to do "serious"
> computing.  Then you tell me: come on, Scott, that's old System
> software running on an emulator.  Real Macs are much more usable
> and have much more memory and so on.  What if I end up replying:
> Macs ARE TOO _very_ usable with little memory and a black and
> white screen and that's all I need to judge it.  No wonder
> the Great Wintel machine beat out the cute but harmless Little
> Mac.  How would you feel?

I never said anything that is even remotely connected to the paragraph
you wrote, above.  You're still assuming I have very little memory in my
GS to even make such statements when I've already said I have 4 meg.


-- 
--bj   Auto reply will not work; please reply to bjbear@ibm.net
Proud owner/user of Apple Computers since 1984
Barbie & Ken doll fan since 1961