Re: Apple II Email (The Challenge)

[pubpc1@library.ucla.edu]

Jack Friess <jfriess@wctc.net> wrote:
>> Instead of trying to use the Linux box as a hard disk and print
>> spooler, it would be cheaper to equip the Apple IIs with this
>> capability.  Alltech Electronics makes a 20MB internal hard disk
>> drive for Apple //e and IIGS computers for $89.  With the allocated
>> funds, each Apple II can have a hard disk to run applications
>> such as AppleWorks on.
>
>This idea has lots of merit.  The A2 is woofully low on resources,
>one being storage space.  This certainly would give more flexibility
>to not only the ultimate email/network solution, but also to every
>day use of the A2 in the classroom or lab.

Yes, and even when a classroom finally stops using the Apple IIs, the
hard disks can be reclaimed.  The Focus Internal IDE Hard Disk Cards
use standard IBM PC style IDE mechanisms.  This means that you can
take the hard disk and install it on a PC, or take a PC hard disk and
install it on the card.


>One consideration is that no mater what we do to the A2 to make it a
>more viable machine now, in 5 to 7 years it will be dead.  Rightly or
>wrongly, schools are already dumping their A2 for Mac or PCs for
>obvious reasons that we may or may not agree with.  Putting $100 into
>a machine that can not be recovered or reused in another machine
>might not be a well spent investment in eyes of some.  When the
>add-ons are more than the value of the computer itself, things don't
>add up.

That would be true if the investment were not recoverable.  However,
these hard disk drives also function in PC compatibles.  In fact, I
just recently cannibalized a 486's 2.5" hard disk drives and installed
it on a Focus Hard Disk Card with a bad mechanism.  The Apple II
(a GS in this case) recognized the drive fine and a simple reformat
made it usable.  To reverse the process, simply put the mech. back in
the PC and run FDISK to reformat the drive.  The Focus, by the way, is
extremely easy to use.  It seems to have what in the PC world would be
called an "autoconfiguring BIOS" so it recognizes the number of
cylinders, etc., of any IDE/Enhanced IDE drive you throw at it.
(It recognized a 500MB Quantum Go-Drive without a blink)

Besides, the primary reason for the hard disks is to get email working.
The drives are not the main purpose.  They are supporting hardware.
The $100 grant money is still for the sole purpose of email terminals
..terminals which would cost a great deal more that $100 if they were
not based on Apple IIs.

The major programming problems involved in implementing Apple II email
disappear with several megabytes of storage space.  You can, for
example, overcome the 128K memory limitation by swapping modules of
the program into and out of memory from the storage medium.


>> More importantly, this will give them enough
>> space to run METAL.  METAL is a telecommunications programming
>> language.  Although Kidterm dosn't exist, it could easily be
>> programmed in METAL.  METAL has the capability to extract and send
>> email and usenet through a UNIX or Linux box.  The advantage of
>> programming Kidterm in METAL is that the task would be trivial.
>> METAL already has pre-written serial drivers and email and usenet
>> modules, now used with the FV BBS system.  These could easily be
>> used as modules for Kidterm.  It is also 100% free.
>
>A major concern for our group has been getting mail in IP format
>to the LAN server.  If you are saying that the "email and usenet
>modules" have incorporated TCP/IP stacks and functions that can
>run on 128K, then METAL really should be investigated.  [Actually
>it is!!  I was sent a copy of it on Monday and hope to find the
>time to investigate, or find someone with more time than I. :-)]

I think the METAL email and usenet modules make use of UUCP packets.
It should be possible to get your server to talk it.


>> Kidterm can be written in the METAL programming language.  The
>> source code for METAL is available.  It should be possible to
>> modify it to boot into a startup program (much like BASIC.SYSTEM
>> launches STARTUP) when the METAL run time environment is launched.
>> Kidterm would be a front end program written in METAL that sends
>> and retrieves email and usenet through the Linux box.
>
>Does METAL communicate to WinNT also--that is the planned LAN server
>and POP mail server in _our_ school system?

I don't know.  If one has to program it, it would probably be easier
to do within the METAL environment than in assembly or C simply
because there is a lot of prewritten code such as serial and memory
drivers for it.


>I have more questions, comments, but no time now.  We should continue
>this discussion, right?
>
>
>Jack Friess
>Stevens Point, Wisconsin, USA

Sure.  Actually, I am surprised at the sudden silence on this topic,
since we seem to be getting close to a solution.  I would like to hear
what Nate or Derick think about the feasability of using METAL,
running on 128K Apple II computers with 20MB hard disks, for email
on a serial based network with UUCP packets.