Re: Give Noisetracker credit to the FTA

["Charles T. Turley" <cturley@wco.com>]

Nobody is disputing that Noise Tracker was written by the FTA. It (Noise 
Tracker up to and including V1.0) was authored and coded by Olivier 
Goguel. Everybody knows that! Everybody knows who helped with all parts, 
icons, etc. with all versions up to and including Noist Tracker v1.0 
also.

Joe, you wrote in: news:5629bs$r6i@crl3.crl.com   -  you state as noted 
with " " ->

"Do you really believe that by telling the same lie over and over and 
over again that it'll somehow become truth???"

Here's my reply to this CRAP:
Joe this is an extremely vague, Vogen styled, blanket statement that 
makes no common sense, has no relationship to any item and has no basis 
for factual data reference to it. Be more specific, please - if you want 
any credibility, value or belief to be related to such a statement. Show 
each alledged lie, in detailed outline, stating why it's a lie and 
showing conclusive evidence as to why you claim it's a lie. Until you do 
show such proof, most people, reading your vague, Vogen styled and 
simple blanket accusations (including me) will simply consider them to 
be weak attempts at your redundant efforts with your insane and petty 
personal character assination attempts against me.  

As far as I'm concerned I'm telling no lies of any type with respect to 
anything related to the Noise Tracker programs (any and all versions of 
it). Detail your alligations of lies please. State your facts, present 
your evidence, to prove  (beyound a shadow of a doubt) that I'm lying 
about anything related to Noise Tracker.

Your comment:

"I have a letter from Olivier Goguel, dated October 4, 1991 that most 
clearly states that NoiseTracker is public domain software."

My reply:

I know the letter you refer to.I have the photocopy of it, that you 
snail mailed to me. I even still have the envelope you sent the 
photocopy in. I've digitized the photocopy of the letter and enhanced it 
and had it closely reviewed. The enhanced digitized jpeg clearly shows 
that it has been altered and is not original, as you received it from 
Olivier Goguel.

If it is, in fact original and unaltered as you claim it to be then 
here's my challenge to you. Let's you and I meet in person under close 
supervision to prevent any violent confrontations - at one of your user 
group meetings, show the letter to the attendees, pass it around for 
everybody (including me) to see and examine. That's the only way anybody 
else (including me) can ever really be sure it's for real and not simply 
some fake, composite that you rigged up to make people beleive you 
claims.

And even if it does turn out to be shown to the user group attendees - 
as a real letter, unaltered in any  manner, it still has no legal 
bearing in any manner to prove that Noise Tracker v1.0 was released to 
public domain.

For example I have every letter I ever received from Olivier Goguel 
(including the one mentioned above of yours) digitized in highest 
quality color - jpeg format.  I can make thm available to the public by
uploading them as binaries to: comp.binaries.apple2 - newsgroup.  But, 
what conclsive proof or good would that be?  None!  I'll bring all of my 
original letters from Olivier Goguel to any user group meeting, if you 
will bring yours.  That's really the only way any of the readers of this 
newsgroup can ever know for certain, who's telling the TRUTH - with 
respect to any of this.

Here's another point for you and all readers of this news group to 
comtemplate and consider. It's fairly common knowledge that French 
people, (programmers and users - that is) consider the term FREEWARE and 
PUBLIC DOMAIN to relate to one and the same in terminology - but, not in 
status. Just because somebody sends you a letter stating that a program 
is public domain, when they really mean it to be freeware, doesn't not 
constitute it to be legally released or classified as a public domain 
program. Nothing is public domain, until the author makes it public 
domain by declareing it public domain to the pblic themselves. And, with 
respect to Noise Tracker by Olivier Goguel and the FTA, that's never 
been done. Your claim of having a letter stating such - is not legal 
proof! You know that very well!

For your's and everybody elses information - I had a voice conversation 
with Olivier Goguel, after I received your phone call on the matter of 
the letter and again after I received the photocopy of the letter from 
you. Both times - with both voice telephone conversations with Olivier 
Goguel, we discussed your claims in detail and he clearly stated to me 
that he never intended to release Noise Tracker v1.0 into public domain, 
that the letter you have was intended to relate it as FREEWARE and not 
as public domain. He again stated in the tel-con with me that you had no 
reason to be concerned with the matter or the status of the program, as 
he released Noise Tracker v1.0 as a copyrighted freeware in 1992 and not 
as a public domain release.

At this point in tme all of this is really very irrelevant anyway - as I 
released every version of Noise Tracker (from v1.0 up to and including 
v2.0) into public domain, with all of the beta's and all of the src. 
codes. So, really what's the reasoning for all this chatter on the 
status of Noise Tracker anyway, other than to prove that you are RIGHT 
and I am WRONG?

If that's really what you want to do then get a notarized letter from 
Olivier Goguel stating that Noise Tracker was released to public domain, 
prior to his giving the  Noise Tracker program rights, src. codes, etc. 
for Noise Tracker to me. You know the team members of Brutal Deluxe very 
well, they know how to contact Olivier Goguel at his work or his home, 
to get such. So DO IT! Prove to the Apple II community that I was WRONG 
and you were RIGHT. 

And, additionally if you have nothing to hide with the actual letter - 
accept my challenge to prove also to the Apple II community that the 
letter under discussion is real and unaltered in any manner, by 
presenting it for me and all attendees of a user group meeting to review 
personally. 

Your comment:

"Once a work is placed into the public domain, it remains in the public
domain."

My reply:

That is correct to a degree, but only if it's presented to the public by 
the program author as such and not before! Prove that to be incorrect!

Additionally, if a program is released to public domain, any and all 
updates additions and improvements to the original program can be 
copyrighted by the person or group that makes such enhancements, 
additions and.or improvements to it.  This is the very reason that the 
Noise Tracker v1.1 release from Ian Schmidt has his name and/or company, 
etc. noted as copyrighted.  That's also the very reason that (even 
though I have the src.code enhancements of Ian Schmidt's for Noise 
Tracker v1.1) I can not release them in any manner, without Ian Schmidts 
written consent, release and premission to do so.

But, then those poorly written src. codes of Ian Schmidt for the 
enhancements and changes to the Noise Tracker v1.1 release will always 
remain hidden from the public eye, because Ian is ashamed to release 
them for public view.

Non-the-less, his enhancements, src. code, etc. for Noise Tracker v1.1
remain his personal copyrighted material and proterty, until he elects 
to release them as either; freeware or public domain, just as any 
enhancements, additions and src. codes to any and all versions of Noise 
Tracker - done by myself, Dave swanson and 1WSW, remain the copyrighted 
property of same, until they are legally released as freeware and/or 
public domain.

In closing this long and nccessary reply - I again clearly state to all 
for public record, that all enhancements, additions and src. codes to 
any and all versions of Noise Tracker - done by myself, Dave swanson and 
1WSW are and hae been in public domain from the first part of early 
1994. They are all archived for public download and review or use - in 
any way anybody wishes to use them, from many areas on the Internet; the 
1WSW web site, Ground, Grind, etc.

Now, Joe, until you can conclusively prove your claims and accusations 
of my lying about anything related to the Noise Tracker program or 
anything else for that matter, then please use some common sense, logic 
and tact with the concert, undisputable facts or don't post such vague, 
Vogen styled and non-specific, blanketed statements of CRAP to the 
public again.

Awaiting your reply and your conclusive, undisputable PROOF, I remain:

Sincerely,
Tom

PS: And, additionally - this being addressed directly to Ian Schmidt, I 
just had a tel-con with Kent about your posted claim and it's PURE BUNK. 
Kent never said any such thing to you - period! According to Kent - all 
he discussed with Olivier Goguel at the show in 1995, in Las Vegas, was 
about a program Olivier and the software company he worked for - was a 
pre-release they were showing there - for the PC platform based on the 
original Pacman game. I doubt that you have a finished version of 
anything for the GS, that you haven't already released to the public.
And, if you really do, then give it to Joe Kohn and let him sell it via 
Shareware Solutions II. 

Where is your Holy Grail GS music program 'ShockWave'?  I'll tell you 
and everybody else where it is. It belongs to your ex-code partner - 
Richard and from his reply to my email to him about it, he has no 
intention of releasing it to you or anybody else, as he's washed his 
hands completely with respect to the Apple II community for good - in 
general, thanks to you and all the others like you!

Ian, you know as wel as I know and anybody else knows - that understands 
the S3M format, that that format can never be presented and used on the
Apple IIGS.  And, with respect to your comment about my sector editing 
the v2.0 release of NTGS, and nobody else besides me being able to make 
and save a Protracker MODfile with the program, that's bull shit too!
Anybody that reads the documentation presented with the NTGS v2.0 
release can make a Protracker 4 track MOD file with the program and they 
can save it just like I did.  There was NO SECTOR EDIT by me or anybody 
else with respect to NTGS v2.0 (any release or beta of same). 

Anybody can create and save a Protracker standard format - MODfile with 
NTGS v2.0, the same way I did! If nobody else can create and save a 
MODfile with the NTGS v2.0 program, then it's because they are simply to 
ignorant to know how to do it with the program and for no other reason 
what-so-ever. All they have to do is read the documentation for the 
program and practice at it until they learn how.  And, that's a fact!

NTGS v2.0 is the only program for the Apple IIGS ever released that can 
construct and save a Protracker MODfile format file, from scratch. It's 
the only REAL GS/OS compliant MODfile Editor that was ever released for 
the Apple IIGS - period.

I'm very proud of the program and all it's able to do - just as I'm very 
proud of Dave Swanson and his skilled coding efforts with the rewrite 
and enhancements of NTGS v2.0. Dave did what you never could and never 
would do with Noise Tracker! He turned it into a real GS/OS desktop 
application program, compliant with all the GS/OS standards, with the 
help of; Olivier Goguel, me, Tim Meekins and Tony Morales. And, nothing 
related to the NTGS v2.0 rewrite contained one line of code from you and 
you had nothing t do with it - THANK GOD!

Again, I'll challenge you to release you claimed finished GS programs.
Come on and release them - Mr. 'Turkey' IRSMan. Prove me WRONG - PLEASE! 
You won't - because they don't exist! You can't release something that 
doesn't exist. And, don't use ME as your FAKE excuse for not releasing 
them. That's lame, stupid and very childish, in all respects. They 
simply don't exist - and that's that! You're a bigger bull shit artist 
than anybody - DUDE! PROVE YOU'RE NOT!