Re: Apple Computers-collector's items?

[nathan@visi.com (Nathan Mates)]

In article <gabrielr-1208962039100001@ts35-11.wla.ts.ucla.edu>,
Gabriel Rossman <gabrielr@ucla.edu> wrote:
>I don't care if its flamebait, I stick to my opinions and here's why.

   I don't care if this is a flame, but you'e got your head of your
ass, and I'm going to point it out in embarrasing detail.

> The fact is that a kid who knows that it takes 10
>minutes to initialize a disk, writes fluent BASIC, doesn't know what a
>hard drive is, and has never heard of MS Word or Excel is going to find
>that the skills he learned in school have little to no use in the real
>world.

   Oh, so 10 minutes to format a disk is a problem? I take it you've
never low-leveled a multi-gig HD, as those can take an hour. Then
there's also patience, something you'd never bother to apply in the
real world.  Even Windoze 95 still takes a minute or two to format a
3.5" disk, but you're in such a cushy little owrld what you wouldn't
know how to format a disk if you didn't pay the extra $ for
preformatted disks.

   Basic is also a dead and forgotten language. Funny, try telling
that to Microsoft (yeah, so they've got their priorities in the wrong
places too, but at least they're making money, unlike you). They're
bundling Visual Basic with Word and Excel, and were trying to make it
the language of the Web until Java proved more popular. 

   Since Basic is so useless, all the people who grew up on Apple IIs
when they were real popular and used Basic and Machine Language (two
of the languages hated by snobby CS types who think they encourage bad
programming style... you program in the style that the language pushes
you into, not the other way around) must be totally crippled in this
modern world of only C++, right? Hell no. They learned to program, and
they learned to program _well_, and have adapted to more modern
techniques as they were paid to do so. A large chunk of the programmers
where I work (writing video games for very nice money) learned on
Apple IIs, and they still like them. 

   If you're going to criticize things for being old, why don't you
turn your efforts to real issues, like COBOL and Fortran? Yes, those
languages were old when your parents were still zygotes, but they're
still in widespread use IN THE REAL WORLD. Get out of your cutesey
academic world where you can afford the latest and greatest PC with
your parents paying for it and beer, and get into touch with reality.

>Just as it would be idiotic for UC Davis to teach it's students to do
>everything with a hoe, when they'll be using combines, airplanes, and
>trucks in real life agriculture, its stupid to teach kids BASIC and
>appleworks when they'll be using Windows, Mac, or Unix and GUI suite
>software in the real world.

   Oh, and so all the people who grew up and used computers BEFORE
windoze, macs, and idiot GUIs are totally incompetent when it comes to
using modern computers. Suuure, and you have a chance of figuring out
that people actually go through this process called *LEARNING*. Try it
one day; the results would surprise everyone.

>There are only two practical uses for apple IIs in an education environment;
>a) overcoming technophobia
>b) learning to type

   c) 5000+ educational software titles that educated millions of kids
   d) Making you foam at the mouth, which is certainly the most interesting

>Besides, most kids spend more time on an apple II with Artillery, strip
>poker, and swashbuckler than they do with oregon trail.

   Oh, and so with PCs or Macs, they won't run Doom, visit porno web
sites, or do anything non-educational at all. Whatever controlled
substances you've been ingesting to give you this narrow, idiotic, and
imbecilic viewpoint on the world, you're going to have to consume a
LOT less of before you hit the real world. And by the way, please
remember to wipe after using the toilet-- the skid marks on your neck
won't impress anyone at a job interview.

Nathan Mates

--
<*> Nathan Mates http://www.visi.com/~nathan/      <*>
# What are the facts? Again and again and again-- what are the _facts_?
# Shun wishful thinking, avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors
# think-- what are the facts, and to how many decimal places?  -R.A. Heinlein