Re: What was the first RPG?

[megst19+@pitt.edu (Mischa E Gelman)]

>>> The meaning of the term "RPG" hasn't changed since the time that Adventure
>>> came out. It is not an RPG. The context has nothing to do with it.
>>
>>Why not?  RPG does not mean there have to be stats.  Pray tell, what
>>is the official definition then, if it isn't "a game that deals with
>>playing a role"?  Or is this a "I can't describe it, but I'll know
>>it when i see it"?
>
>Actually, an RPG pretty much *does* have to have stats, so as to better
>create your character. A game without stats is often an adventure 
>game, not an RPG.

I think I have to agree - even diceless games like Everway still require 
stats.  But there is a difference between the character being the stats 
and being a seperate entity.

>Without a combat system, or at least some sort of conflict resolution
>rules, it isn't an RPG. Lots of people would agree with me here. This 
>is a topic that gets argued about all the time in rec.games.frp.misc,
>however.

Never seen it there - but who better to know?  If some RPGers think RPGs 
don't require combat, then I think they do not.  I would notlike an RPG 
wo/ combat that much, but if some people play them then fine.

>>And probably a majority agree that randomness is not needed. 
>
>A majority? I doubt it. Many people consider diceless "role-playing"
>to be simple make-believe storytelling, and barely an RPG at all.

Diceless doesn't equal no randomness.  Everway, for example, uses a Tarot 
sort of randomness in place of dice.

>in an adventure game, you can pretty much do the exact same thing every
>time you play, and always win. RPGs are much less predictable and 
>usually have a more free-form nature.

RPGs shouldn't have winning.  Ask anyone on any rec.games.frp.* group.

>>Sure, combat was limited, but if someone came out with
>>the My Dinner With Andre RPG, would it fail the test because of that?
>
>Yes, unless you developed a "dinner table argument resolution system". 
>Without conflict, you don't really have an RPG, just an interactive (or
>not) storytelling experience.

But you're playing a role.  Some people I've seen claim the best RPGs 
they've played have been ones where the entire session was spent on 
coversation and interaction between the PCs, no resolution system of any 
kind.


>Wizardry is in fact one of the first computer RPGs ever, though I 
>think Apshai predates
Apshai didn't let you have a class, race or most of the stuff you 
mentioned gave Wizardry its RPG status.

-- 
Ron Luciano: I remember one time Catfish Hunter moved the team's right 
fielder, Roy White, about 7 steps closer to the foul line.Then, after thinking
about it, he moved him 3 steps back towards center.Unfortunately,the batter hit
 a tremondous home run - but it did go directly over Roy White's head.