Re: Complete Basic?

["Charlie" <charlieDOTd@verEYEzon.net>]

"Michael J. Mahon" <mjmahon@aol.com> wrote in message 
iP-dnQMT_7ppDXTbnZ2dnUVZ_vGinZ2d@comcast.com">news:iP-dnQMT_7ppDXTbnZ2dnUVZ_vGinZ2d@comcast.com...
> Charlie wrote:
>> "Michael J. Mahon" <mjmahon@aol.com> wrote in message 
>> lP6dnWNZgL35DnXbnZ2dnUVZ_hisnZ2d@comcast.com">news:lP6dnWNZgL35DnXbnZ2dnUVZ_hisnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> *** much snipped ***
>>
>>
>>>The original Apple II "idea" was that its considerable capabilities
>>>were accessible out-of-the box to anyone who was patient and could
>>>read--a true "bicycle for the mind."
>>>
>>>By contrast, the Apple IIgs (like the III before it) had even greater
>>>capabilities, but access to them was wrapped in prodigious complexity
>>>and locked up by the absence of out of the box documentation and tools.
>>
>>
>> Ah..., now you've hit on what I believe are the true reasons that the 
>> Apple IIgs was different.  No toolbox documentation out of the box and no 
>> built in GS specific BASIC.
>>
>>
>>>I still say that the IIgs, like the III, departed radically from the
>>>original Apple II idea of *accessible computer power*, and having Woz's
>>>signature on the case of the first 50,000 or so was irony.
>>
>>
>> Well, departed yes, radically no, I can't see that.  After all the IIgs 
>> still has nearly all the capabilities of the other Apple IIs (more than 
>> the Apple IIc in my opinion) and the bundled documentation deteriorated 
>> with all the later Apple IIs.
>
> It's not "compatibility" that makes a machine an Apple II--it's the
> whole spirit of the thing--the way the case snaps open, the way it
> greets you with a "program me" prompt when you turn it on!

I believe compatibility of both hardware and software trumps any other way 
of determining what makes an Apple created computer an Apple II.
And by the way, the case snapping part eliminates the IIc more than the IIgs 
and the IIgs greets you with the same prompt as any other Apple II.

> (That's why I can't get excited about emulation of a II on a modern
> structural behemoth.)

Yes, emulators don't have the "feel" of a real Apple II (any model).  That 
however doesn't stop them from being a good tool for learning programming 
from scratch.

Charlie