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Re: Complete Basic?



Michael J. Mahon wrote:
Charlie wrote:
"Michael J. Mahon" <mjmahon@aol.com> wrote in message 5PqdnVXUWsYfRnvbnZ2dnUVZ_rDinZ2d@comcast.com">news:5PqdnVXUWsYfRnvbnZ2dnUVZ_rDinZ2d@comcast.com...


[snip]

As I've observed before, a GUI means that almost any program you want
to write will be 10% your functionality and 90% GUI wrangling.  That's
a heck of a tax!


Certainly true (and I'm someone who likes GUI programming). There are non-GUI tools in the IIgs toolbox but text based programs were pretty rare on the IIgs. Merlin 16+ is one I used (and liked) a lot and it is GSOS/text. The Orca text shell is another.

True, but only developers used text-based apps on the IIgs.

The original Apple II "idea" was that its considerable capabilities
were accessible out-of-the box to anyone who was patient and could
read--a true "bicycle for the mind."

By contrast, the Apple IIgs (like the III before it) had even greater
capabilities, but access to them was wrapped in prodigious complexity
and locked up by the absence of out of the box documentation and tools.

I still say that the IIgs, like the III, departed radically from the
original Apple II idea of *accessible computer power*, and having Woz's
signature on the case of the first 50,000 or so was irony.

-michael

NadaPong: Network game demo for Apple II computers!
Home page:  http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."

I think the difference is that the III and IIgs were "tweeners". Neither this nor that. The III was supposed to be a serious business machine but hobbled with II compatibility. I honestly don't know what the IIgs was supposed to be. A Mac for the home? A high end game machine? Too slow for either. Whatever.

The II had a purpose and focus.  It was the computer Woz wanted for
himself to explore what it meant to be a microcomputer. It came out of the box ready to explore. There was no right or wrong way to program it. No GUI that forced you to use the widgets handed to you in a library or toolbox. No Managers.

Why, when I was a youngster I learned to program by typing hex code into the monitor! Harumph! ( I know somebody is going to reply with: I had toggle switches! or: I had to program core memory with tweezers!)

If you're going to program for a GUI, might as well go for XCode on OS X. Interface Builder almost makes it fun.

Dave...