Re: My favorite Apple II

["PZ" <skierpaul@yahoo.com>]

:Hi Paul... How's my favorite wall climbing KFester?  B-{)
Doing good, but I'm gonna miss those perfectly spaced hallways at
Avila.  :(

:One thing those other webside news sites have is revenue from ads.
The
:Apple II world has a notable absence of that source of revenue.  B-{)

No argument here.

:I guess you'll have to take my word for the fact that news announced
in
:the confines of A2Central's forums or chatrooms quickly makes it's way
to
:the website or csa2.  Like Sean, I have an affiliation with Syndicomm
as
:I'm the Real Time Conference Manager and Janitor.  At best we hear
lots of
:the good stuff first, but we pay for it.  News certainly makes itself
know outside of A2C :quickly enough for all but the quibblers.

Its not about the news, its about the lack of forums on site for
discussing said news.

:>One might argue that the world might be a better place
: >if A2central ceased to exist, since another site might arise to fill
: >the void with extended capabilities for the benefit of the A2
community
: >as a whole, rather than for those who still want to pay money to be
a
: >member of club "Genie
: >One might argue that, but one would have to be delusional.  B-{)

I am delusional - I think we can do better.

:And the one time an Apple II based news/forum/chat/file Library
archive
:reaches the critical mass you (and I of course) regard as so
important,
:you propose that it should cease to exist?  Excuse me my confusion...

No thats not it, its just that a pay site, in this day and age,
shouldn't be the PRIMARY hub of Apple II activity.  New & returning
users don't know the value, and miss out entirely.

:>To more specifically answer you question, why should they provide
them
:> in the first place?  A2 central should provide message forums
because
:>that site is one of the first places where new or returning Apple II
:> users end up on the web when looking for help or information.  Yes

:There are those that would consider that as sniping on csa2's turf.
And
:I'll be frank, csa2 generates more traffic that the forums on A2C if
:that's whats worrying you.  On the otherhand, A2C's got one very nice
RTC
:(live chat) going almost 24/7 with 4-15 folks online.  B-{)

csa2 isn't going anywhere, it can handle competition.  Problem is that
its not easy to find or access for new/returning apple II users.  (yea,
google does make it easier)

:As for Juiced.GS, Sheppy underpays Ryan for that, so there IS a
:connection, but slim at best.  All those authors are paid a pittance
as
:well.  Paid.  If you want freebie news, just go to the A2Central
website.
:You can get that there.

I do go to A2central's site, almost everyday.  I also pay $18/yr for 3
issues of Juiced GS (1 out of 4 never seems to get to my mailbox).  The
news service on A2 central is great, thats not the issue.  Its what the
site lacks.

:>csa2 is a great resource for this as well, however you have to ask
your
: >self, "what fraction of the internet using population know that
: >A)usenet exists B)csa2 exists and C)know how to get to csa2?"
Besides,
: >ever try telling someone to find the BINSCII packed system 6.01
disks
: >on comp.binaries.apple2

:Looks like a promotion problem to me.  And this isn't A2C's problem.
If
:you want to get folks to csa2 (which is a fine goal in my opinion
too),
:then what are YOU going to do about it?  Besides attacking another
:successful Apple II forum that is.

If syndicomm promoted itself better to new users maybe I wouldn't bitch
so much.  ie: Allow view only access to the file library, so people
knew what was there.  Maybe offering a guest "lurk" mode for the chat
and message boards.  Then people would be able to see what was worth
paying $35 for.

Some questins:  What percentage of the total online Apple II user
: population has membership on Syndicomm?  Now, why should the other
: portion of that total have to pay to have access to the people who
are
: the knowlege base of the Apple II community

:As for your other question, we have some sharp folks, but it's not
like
:they're doctors or dentists of the A2 world.  Csa2 has the same or
similar
:band of experts.

Yeah, there's some good people here too.

:>For the benefit of the
:>Apple II community, shouldn't the primary online "hangout" be
someplace
:> that is publicly accessable to all?  (I am in favor of moderation of
:> turkeys and such, btw

:Csa2 serves that purpose, I'm thinking.  Of course, it's unmoderated
but
:that not a bad thing either.

Right, but no file library, no news, and difficult for new/returning A2
users to find.

:If folks are online, they're paying for their ISP, right?  What's
another
:$0.10/day to join a nice Apple II forum which also offers spamfiltered
:email, and webspace to build your own website?  And live chat whenever
you
:like.

Not any problem at all to anyone who knows its there and knows the
value.  A new/returning user doesn't know that.

:If it's not worth it to you, I can understand.  But why waste time
moaning
:about it?

I'm not a member because I wouldn't get anything done other than sit in
chat for hours on end talking about how Kirk almost got his eye poked
out with a 5.25" floppy.  ;-)

I like to moan.

Seriously though, its worth moaning about because right now we have an
opportunity for tha Apple II community to grow due to a growing intrest
in vintage computing.  However, we need to make our limited resources
much more available and accessible for this to happen.

Just a side thought... if Kfest discussions were publicly accessible, I
believe that enrollment would go up by at least 33%.  It won't happen
here on csa2 since the majority of Kfest participants reside over at
A2central/syndicomm.  Those that also spend time on csa2 wont bother to
talk about it much here.

Good hearing from you Kirk.
- Paul