Re: Low-level vs. High-level programming (was My First Computer)

["Randy McLaughlin" <randy@nospam.com>]

"Tjoff Tjonk" <tjoff@tjonk.now> wrote in message
pan.2003.06.18.20.55.45.187290@tjonk.now">news:pan.2003.06.18.20.55.45.187290@tjonk.now...
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:52:55 -0500, Randy McLaughlin wrote:
>
> > "Tjoff Tjonk" <tjoff@tjonk.now> wrote in message
> > pan.2003.06.18.19.07.35.727341@tjonk.now">news:pan.2003.06.18.19.07.35.727341@tjonk.now...
> >> On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:33:55 -0500, Randy McLaughlin wrote:
> >> >> HTML doesn't describe computation - it's a markup language for web
> > pages;
> >> >> what exactly did you mean?  JavaScript?  ASP?
> >> >
> >> > HTML is programming, just as CP/M's sub files, dos bat files , IBM's
old
> >> > JCL, Unix script files, etc.
> >>
> >> Randy... HTML is as much programming as English text is programming.
HTML
> >> does not describe computation - it is a markup language for web pages.
> >>
> >> > There are plenty of every day tasks that are programs.  A program is
a
> >> > defined "automatic" task.
> >>
> >> How do you write an automatic task in HTML? (Hint: you can't :-)
> >
> > The automatic task is in describing to the client the tasks to display
the
> > page the HTML code describes.  Like it or not it is a program.  The
first
> > program people tend to learn is the "hello" program:  Just a program
that
> > prints hello to the console.  The first HTML code anyone learns is just
a
> > simple.  HTML is a limited "language", but it does contain enough
structure
> > to be a language.  If we carry your logic through then nothing can be a
> > program that does not take two weeks to rewire our eniacs.
>
> Please Randy, tell us how to make arithmetic computation, conditional
> statements and loops in HTML...

Word has now come down someone has now set the standard for what a computer
programming language must contain.  Many computer languages have had similar
statements made if it doesn't have x it can't be programming, a good example
is dbase.  When dbase came out everyone said it's not a programming language
because it did not have a goto (other than record pointer).  HTML is a very
limited language it allows for someone to tell a client to do sophisticated
actions.  You may not like it since it does not contain the verbs you want
it to have, but it still is a programming language.  It will not balance
your checkbook, but it will allow you see the world.

>
> > Many computer languages were created to bring the concept of simple
English
> > to programming.  It has been an evolution with many strange mutations,
but
> > computer languages continue to be created, HTML is just a small but
useful
> > language for the GUI web environment.
>
> It is a mark-up language, not a programming language.

The Hyper-links alone shows that it is more than a mark-up language.  It
does not require the user to type each and every page address to have the
client move seamlessly from one page to another.  There are quite a few
verbs that are available to control the page and links.

I have programmed in hardware using gates, binary using switches, assembler
using mnemonics, basic, etc.  All are equal in that they are programming.
Should I say that if you don't program with a ww pencil you aren't
programming.