Re: Official and LEGAL ways to emulate Apple II?

["Tim Haynes" <timhaynes@alumni.NO.SPAM.PLEASE.uwaterloo.ca>]

A very interesting problem.  I am not a lawyer, but in the same way that you
can make a backup copy of any disc for backup purposes without breaching
copyright, I would say that you can pull an image of each of your Apple II's
ROMs, and use them as "backup" copies on the Windows machines.  To be on
your best legal ground, you should pull an image of each ROM and use each
image only once on a Windows machine.  If you have 20 Apples, then you would
have 20 ROM images and 20 Windows machines using them.  When the Apple IIs
are "liquidated", pull the ROM chips and keep them in your desk (since if
you sold them, you would have to delete your ROM image files to be all nice
and legal).

Cheers
Tim

"J. Random Luser" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
q9jebv8ngd7d209r6t3l53lrdl5jtoslag@4ax.com">news:q9jebv8ngd7d209r6t3l53lrdl5jtoslag@4ax.com...
> I am a tech support person at a K-12 public school, and I would like
> to continue to have Apple II software available for staff and
> students. (Yes, even now, some schools are STILL holding onto their
> 15-20 year old Apple II hardware. Hey, I even have two Digicard
> networks running yet.)
>
> Even though most of the word processing and business software is
> horribly out of date, the "drill and practice" type games for learning
> math, typing, and reading have not lost their value to elementary
> teachers, and the teachers would still like to have access to the
> software.
>
>
> However, it is generally not feasible to continue using Apple II
> hardware. The hardware takes up space that could be better used by
> even a "low-end" $500 1gHz system -- with more than 1000 times the
> speed and capability of the original Apple IIe.
>
> Additionally, I have pressure from the school superintendent to get
> rid of the Apples simply for "image" reasons. We want to appear to the
> public to be current and up-to-date, and to have an attractive image
> to potential new teaching staff. How can you do that when you've got
> totally obsolete Apple II hardware (some of it now nearly 20 years
> old) sitting in classrooms?
>
>
> At this point, emulation seems to be the proper path to go. I have
> used the Janzer-Schmidt version of AppleWin and like it a lot. I have
> also converted some 150 old MECC floppies into disk images, put them
> on a Netware server, and even have them appearing in an individual
> computer's Start Menu, direct from the server. Just go to the Start
> menu, select the program, and it instantly loads in AppleWin.
> Everything is working great!
>
> Except there is one problem. I cannot determine how we can officially
> and legally use the Apple IIe ROM with the emulator. I do not want to
> do this "on the sly". I want to be able to do this in a fully public
> manner that can be shared with other schools and is looked on by Apple
> as being acceptable to them. We are after all a public institution and
> as such we should be doing things in a fully legal and proper manner.
>
> I do not want to try and do this "secretly" and then later have all
> the effort wasted if Apple learns what's going on and tries to sue or
> issue "cease and desist" letters to schools, telling them to stop
> using "unlicensed" Apple II emulation in schools.
>
>
> So far, the fully proper route of getting a license to the ROM-code
> from Apple has failed. I hunted around, calling various Apple
> corporate numbers, until I found a special email address for the
> "Intellectual Property Law" department at Apple.
>
> I sent them a number of anonymous email requests for information on
> how to get a free or low-cost license for the Apple IIe ROM-code for
> K-12 schol use, and got this response back from one of their lawyers:
>
> >  Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:54:05 -0700
> >  Subject: Re: status update? (Re: Apple II ROM)
> >
> >  Thank you for your correspondence dated Fri, 25 Apr 2003, which has
> >  been forwarded to me for response.
> >
> >  At this time Apple has no interest in releasing Apple II ROM code
> >  for additional use.  While we appreciate your interest and support
> >  of Apple, we ask that you respect this policy.
> >
> >  Thank you for contacting Apple with your question.
> >
> >  Very truly yours,
> >  APPLE COMPUTER, INC.
> >
> >  Mark Aaker
> >  Attorney
> >  Apple Law Department
>
> So they won't do licensing directly. Is there any "indirect" licensing
> available? Are there any emulators out there that I can buy that
> include the ROM-code and are officially blessed by Apple to include
> the ROM-code with their emulator?
>
>
> I have also heard a claim that you can emulate as long as you own the
> original machine you are emulating. I have no idea if this is true, or
> if it's just a made-up concept that has no real legal bearing. Has
> this ever been tested in court? (Can you point me to any web info
> relating to this?)
>
> How far does this concept go? Must you retain a fully functional
> machine, or is it enough to just own the ROMs from the machine? Could
> I pull the ROMs, put them in electrostatic-safe foam, and discard the
> rest of the computer?
>
> Must you own the exact machine, or is it okay to have the ROMs from a
> newer generation of the computer line and emulate an older version? At
> this school I am trying to upgrade to emulation, we have 25 Apple IIgs
> computers in storage. But I want to use AppleWin, not a IIgs emulator.
> Is it okay to keep the IIgs ROMs around as legal "proof" I can use the
> IIe emulator?
>
>
> Another question is how the costs of "past purchases" factors into
> this. The school where I work has likely bought more than a hundred
> Apple IIe/IIgs computers in years past. Even if we have now discarded
> the actual hardware, it seems like all that money spent should be able
> to count for something now.
>
> In my opinion, we should still be able to use an emulated Apple IIe
> even if we discarded the hardware, because we already paid Apple once
> to use the ROM in that hardware. We shouldn't need to pay them again
> to be able to emulate up to as many Apple II computers as we had
> originally purchased some 10-20 years ago.
>
>
> If anyone knows the real, legal facts surrounding these issues, I'd
> appreciate some help.
>
>