Re: Apple's ways

[Ralf Quint <Ralf_Quint@hot_mail.com>]

On 5 Aug 2001 23:40:13 GMT, wbdesnoy@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca (Byron
Desnoyers Winmill) wrote:

>Ralf Quint (Ralf_Quint@hot_mail.com) wrote:
>: Well, i must say, that if this would happen, the iMacs would finally
>: get the bad reputation they deserve.
>
>The iMac is directed towards a particular market.  They do not deserve a bad
>reputation for that.  That would be something akin to giving an Apple II a
>bad rap simply because Apple was selling essentially (if you ignore the IIgs)
>the same machine for over 10 years.
Sorry Byron, but i see this as two different things.
The iMacs are simply crappy hardware (ok ,the monitor is not bad for
it's size and the video chips is ok too), out into a fancy plastic box
to sell it with it's "trendy" look. 
When the Apple II came out, it was a high end, almost top notch
system, which was easliy expandable (even with non-Apple parts), this
was what kept the system alive for so long. And it had a very high end
price even for those days (i couldn't afford one for myself those
days).
And how do you define "particular" market? Well, i work in a computer
service company in Los Angeles, and i have to deal with iMacs in very
different places (we are not a Mac authorized dealer, but obviously
even for Macs we do a better job than those overprized shops with
their fancy authoriszation logo in the Window), both as personal
computers for rich kids in Beverly Hills and as trendy office
"furniture" of media related businesses. The problems with them stay
the same, the people get their "wake-up call" always if these break
after a short while (which they seem to do very often) and they then
suddenly realize that they either spend more money for a G4 in the
first place or would have been better of with a PC.
>
>: They overheat, they are not expandable (only by expensive USB peripherals),
>: you're stuck with the small screen (try to do DTP or CAD on them).....
>
>Many, if not all current, iMacs include firewire.  So an alternative
>mechanism for expansion is there.  Then again, if you're like me and
>don't want the incentive to spend a bundle on new peripherals, it doesn't
Ok, they have ways of expandability, but this is where Apple f***s you
big time and really pulls the money out of your pocket... Tell one of
those yuppy media folks why they spend $120 plus labor to upgrade the
harddrive in a PC while it costs more than double of that to do the
same thing with their beloved iMac.....

>matter.  Besides, what self respecting professional would get an iMac for
>DTP or CAD?  Engineers can spend $2000+ for a high end CRT displays.  If
>you are simply sticking a machine in the home, or classroom, or office, I
>don't see why 15" is inadequate.  But an engineer or graphics artist is
>liable to use specialized software *and* hardware, just as you are more
>likely to find Suns and SGIs in the scientific community.
Even for a regular office work place, we haven't sold a 15" monitor
for about 2 years. All of our new PC's are going out of the door with
a 17" Monitor and the same goes for upgrades too. Just this weekend, i
brought one of my neighbors a 21" monitor, so he can play his
videogames on a bigger screen....

>
>: If i get a Mac for myself, i will stay way clear of those cubes and
>: rather get a real G4 one, though this will require quite a bit more of
>: money. And they are (and probably always will be) far more expensive
>: than a similar equipped Intel machine.....
>
>The cube is style.  If you don't care about pretty machines, there is not
>much sense in getting one.  If you only care about functionality, there is
>not much sense in having one either.  But if you're only interested in
Does this leave any serious reason in getting one???...;-)))

>function, what is the sense in using an Apple II.  It is quite easy to come
>by more powerful machines for a lesser price.  While it may be nostalgia
>for some, I think that it is safe to speak for the majority and state that
>our interest goes beyond a dusty past.  I guess what I'm saying is, buying
Well, i don't understand this... Nowwadays, i doubt that there are a
lot of people still using an Apple II for real life use and not only
for more or less nostalgic reasons. That was the reason for me to get
one (actually, i have a little collection now). 

But as open as the Apple II was designed and handled by Apple, nowdays
they are a closed door shop that is eagerly trying to keep it's stuff
as closed as possible. 
>a computer goes beyond dollars/MHz.  Sometimes people look at style.  Others
>will look at the OS.  The geeky type will look at the number and type of
>processor, expansion busses (AGP and firewire had to start somewhere), or
>chipsets (mainboard, video card, etc.).  Others will simply buy whatever a
But what makes an Apple computer nowadays different from any other
machine? Not even an proprietary OS is actually a real difference
anymore, the stupid one button mouse maybe....
>salesman tells them.  (Ack!  Trying to have an intelligent conversation with
>most salesmen is like talking to a parrot.  But it can be quite fun if you
>aren't actually planning to buy something.  ;-)
>
Ok, the later is true not only for Mac shops but for any kind of sales
person. Most of them don't know squat of what they are
doing/telling/selling.... (though there are exceptions from this rule
too...)

Ralf