Re: Godel Goofed? Nope.

[Roy and/or Janet Miller <millers@inetnebr.com>]

Paul Schlyter wrote:

> In article <3A8C972E.68BF3CD3@inetnebr.com>,
> Roy and/or Janet Miller  <millers@inetnebr.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, I do. However, since you have claimed that statements of Christ,
> > as recorded in scripture were the words of the evil one, that means
> > that you are a son of the father of lies.
>
> Both those who claim that the Bible is the "words of God" and those
> who claim it's the "words of Satan" are liars really.

I don't make that claim. The Bible does: "All Scripture is given by
inspiration of God...." 2 Timothy 3:16, and "knowing this first, that no
prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never
came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by
the Holy Spirit" 2 Peter 1:20-21, and "as also our beloved brother Paul,
according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all
his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things
hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own
destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures" 2 Peter 3:15-16,
and finally, the most common phrase in the Old Testament is some form of
"The word of YHWH" Therefore:

1. Do not call men liars before you accurately understand what they mean by
what they say, otherwise you are a liar when you brand them so;
2. Do not put yourself so quickly in the category of the above quote
"untaught and unstable who twist to their own destruction"
3. The historic Christian position has always been that the Scripture are
both the words of men, and completely the Word of God. Thus, one can find
differing vocabularies, differing writing styles, three different languages
used (Hebrew, Aramaic, Koine Greek), differing issues, but the teaching is
the same.

To the last point, "untaught and unstable people" often "twist ... the
scriptures" by failing to see that sometimes, exactly the same thing is
said, but two differ authors use terms in such a fashion that a cursory
reading leads the "untaught and unstable" to conclude that the authors are
contradicting one another.

Case in point, Paul and James on the subject of justification by
grace/works. The both quote the same OT passage, and use it to claim
justification by grace (Paul) or works (James). Contradiction! No, Paul is
claiming that one is justified (declared righteous by God) via grace,
whereas James is claiming that one proves one's justification by grace
through works. No contradiction at all. Just closer, more careful reading.


> As a matter
> of fact, the Bible is the words of men.....

A half truth is a lie. Prove that the Bible isn't what it says it is, and
do so either through email, or posting elsewhere. BTW, you said you were
agnostic. The word means "a" negative "gnostic" one who knows; translation:
ignorant, one who has no knowledge. Now you claim to know something. Make
up your mind, either you don't know, or you do know (or think you know.)


>
>
> In another few thousand years, Christianity may very well be an
> extinct religion -- like the religions of ancient Greece and Rome are
> extinct today.

I'm wouldn't be surprised to hear you say that you hope so. However, under
the rigorous anti Christian persecutions by the atheistic rulers of the
Soviet Union for 75 years, Christianity has become stronger than ever.
Ditto in mainland China, and other communist countries. It still exists, in
Iraq and Iran where centuries of total societal rejection hasn't stamped it
out. The Turks practiced genocide on the Christian Armenian people, and yet
both the people and the faith survives. And Christians don't have the ethic
unity that has helped the Jews to remain a people. So, time will tell, but
I am confident that the faith, which is still spreading and growing
(outside Europe) will survive. I personally think that you suffer from a
provincial attitude in this area.

Roy

>
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Paul Schlyter,  Swedish Amateur Astronomer's Society (SAAF)
> Grev Turegatan 40,  S-114 38 Stockholm,  SWEDEN
> e-mail:  pausch at saaf dot se   or    paul.schlyter at ausys dot se
> WWW:     http://hotel04.ausys.se/pausch    http://welcome.to/pausch