Re: The Apple II RedBook - Online

[pausch@saafNOSPAM.se (Paul Schlyter)]

In article <iyFl5.491$hg.31344@dca1-nnrp2.news.digex.net>,
Frank Townsend <ftownsen@iamdigex.net> wrote:
 
> "Paul Schlyter" <pausch@saafNOSPAM.se> wrote in message
> news:8n5l7b$9rj$1@merope.saaf.se...
> 
>> I think this forum would appreciate if you did choose to bring up a
>> subject which hasn't been flogged to death 4711 times already.
> 
> I sense that it is an uncomfortable issue for you,
 
You sense wrong....
 
> but I don't recall that you are a usenet moderator, or speak in any
> official capacity for this ng in particular.
 
Quite correct -- and I never claimed to be one.  However like you, I
have the right to tell my opinion.  Or do you think freedom of speech
should apply only to you?
 
>  Filter me if you are not interested in what I have to say ;-)
>
>> But of course: this is a public forum, and if you don't worry about
>> your reputation, feel free to bring up any question here, including
>> questions which have been discussed to death already recently.
> 
> You worry about your reputation, I'll worry about mine ;-)
 
Of course - how could it be otherwise?  I just gave you a piece of
friendly advice -- apparently you're not interested in that.  It's
up to you of course.
 
>> Cturley claims to have proof of permission to make the Red Book
>> available online.  His claim is quite reasonable: after all the Red
>> Book hasn't been sold for decades by Apple, and they have no economic
>> interest in that product anymore.
> 
> Whoa!  Mr. Turley made various assertions regarding permission.  I am not
> sure the claim[s] are "reasonable" though.  Here they are:
> 
> 4/12/2000 I have permission from the author of the Redbook to scan it and
> put it online.
> 4/15/2000 The author and copyright holder has no objections to it's being
> presented cover to cover online.
> 4/15/2000 I got an OK from Woz on my request for doing a cover to cover scan
> and that's good enough for me.
> 4/17/2000  Not true!  I (Charles T. Turley - and no other PEOPLE) am doing a
> cover to cover scan of the Redbook with ALL authors and copyright holders
> consent.
> 
> The only individual named as having granted consent is Woz.  It would be
> doubtful if Woz has the authority to speak for Apple, Inc. (the copyright
> holder) and grant such permission .  Other authors mentioned in the Red Book
> include A. Baum, Wendell Bitter, R. Wigginton and "Elwood" and I don't see
> any evidence of permissions from these authors as having been sought or
> granted.
>
>> But you don't believe him, and want to dispute his claim.
> 
> Verify, not dispute.  You have to admit, it is all a little vague ;-)
 
This is not the place to verify the dispute.  To verify it, find out
who the copyright owner is (presumably it's Apple Computer, but check
first to be sure - the copyrght *might* have been transferred
elsewhere during all these year -- perhaps to Woz?), and then contact
the copyright owner.
 
>> Why do you want to do that?  I can think of two possible reasons:
>> 1. You want to know whether his claim is true or not.  Then this
>> forum isn't the appropriate place:
> 
> Of course it is!
 
No it's not.
 
When I got Bob S-C's assembler and Mike Laumer's Flash! Integer Basic
Compiler reclassified as freeware, I didn't do that by posting and
making a lot of noise here.  Instead I contacted them directly and
asked them!
 
Likewise, you should contact APple Computer directly to find out
whether they think it's OK or not to post scans of the "Red Book".
 
> Why not a text file attached stating the specifics, ie, who granted
> permission, and when.
 
Too easy to fake....
 
> Perhaps a scan of permission on letterhead from Apple, Inc, email
> with headers, etc.
 
That too is easy to fake these days when laser printers and fancy
printout programs are everywhere.
 
I'm sorry, but if you REALLY WANT TO KNOW, there is no shortcut: you
must contact the copyright holder directly.  If you don't do that,
you'll have to trust the word of someone else.
 
> Many people simply don't want to download illegal copies of
> copyrighted works, and have a legitimate interest in being able
> to know with some confidence that a copy is a legal copy.
 
Could you name one single person for which this is a real issue
regarding that "Red Book"?
 
BTW anyone who is that paranoid about eventually being sued should of
course buy a used copy of the book or software.
 
> Agreed, others just don't care ;-).
> 
>> the only one here who knows whether it's true or not is Cturley
>> himself -- and you've already decided you don't trust him, right?
> 
> I knew you were a star gazer:  mind reader also? ;-)
>
>> 2. You want to create a lot of noise.  If so, this forum may sadly
>> be the appropriate place to post.  Can we expect yet another boring
>> thread on the topics "Is Cturley a liar/pirate/<substitute your own
>> insult here>?" and "Is it ethical to distribute old software products
>> which has been without commercial value for decades?" ???
> 
> A self-fulfilling prophecy?  I certainly have been quite civil and have
> not insulted anyone.
 
..so far.. :-)
 
>> certainly hope not -- but one doesn't know.  And if such a thread
>> starts, you're the one who is responsible for it.
> 
> If this terrible thing happens, rest assured, I will be appropriately
> contrite ;-)
 
-- 
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