Re: A2 Trade/Swap ... site ...

[Rubywand <rubywand@swbell.net>]

Roy and/or Janet Miller wrote ...
> 
> Rubywand wrote:
> 
 ....
> >
> > o- there is no "anti-piracy" or other law against uploading or
> >    downloading the old software; agreeing to, ignoring, or halting
> >    any perceived violation is up to the rights owner
> >
> 
> That's a total distortion of the facts. No, there are no "anti-piracy"
> laws; there are copyright laws, which, as someone in third grade could
> figure out, means if I own the copy*right* only I have the *right* to 
> make *copies* for distribution.
 ....

     Yes; all of which comes down to property ownership and the usual
privileges and responsibilities which go along with ownership. To discover
these, reread the passage to which you replied.


> >
> > o- rights owners benefit from having their oldies available for
> >    downloading
> 
> Prove it.
 ....

     A prima facie case has been made (several times, including in some recent
posts) based upon logic. You can look up and examine the arguments in the
newsgroup archives. Feel free to present a logical argument to the contrary.




> >
> > o- of the hundreds (maybe thousands) of rights
> >    owners with software on these sites, the number who
> >    have requested that a product be removed is probably
> >    less than ten.
> 
> Prove it. And, while you're at it, prove that the other rights
> owners know that their
> software is on there, and that they don't care.
>

     Silly. First, no one ever claimed that all of the rights owners know
their wares are available for free downloading. The only significant claim is
that, as a rule, owners who know do not mind and that there is no reason to
expect that those who may not know would object.     

     The arrangement has existed for years and is well established. If you
want to change it, supply evidence that a change is necessary.


 
> >
> >
> > > "Vogons" are not so dumb as
> > > to think that they will change the minds of Tom, Rudy, Ruby, et al,
> >
> >      Unfortunately for the vogon anti-archive wrecker types, the "et al"
> > includes most of the Apple II users in the known universe. Pestering us,
> > especially pestering us with bogus arguments, is definitely dumb.
> 
> That's a laugh.
 ....

     Laughing about pestering users is not an especially bright behavior.



> >
> > > or vice versa.
> >
> > Since the people you are calling "vogons" do not have a coherent ethical
> > or legal position-- like when has Jeff B ever slammed his vogon pal's
> > Bernie site for promoting ROM code rip-offs?-- there is always a chance
> > of change based upon pure self-interest.
> 
> 1) I'm not calling them "vogons" - the word is in quotes,
 ....

     Nevertheless, it is the sole distinctive term of collective reference
presented without in-context contradiction. You used the term because you knew
most readers would understand to whom it refers.


> 2) Jeff doesn't even "slam" you or Tom or Rudy. Why would he slam a
> friend?
 ....

     Yet another case of botched reference. Reread the statement. It speaks of
slamming a web site, not an individual.

     As for the vogon-managed web site referenced, go to this URL:

http://www.magnet.ch/emutech/Bernie/Documentation/GettingStarted/started.html 

and click on "Obtaining a ROM Dump".


     Most users would say that this is an attractive page featuring a
user-friendly interface and good directions for obtaining the IIgs ROM code.

     But, then, you and Jeff B do not agree with most users. Neither does
Henrich, one of the guys who created the IIgs emulator and one of the guys who
runs the Bernie site. (Which explains why you and Jeff B do not bash the
Bernie site the way you do Asimov.)

     According to the standards you and Jeff B and Henrich insist are required
for making copyrighted commercial property available for free download, there
should be a permission from Apple, Inc. clearly referenced in the section
which tells how to rip off or download IIgs ROM code. Where is this
permission?

Note: By the way, the claim in this section: "To legally download and use the
ROM image, you must own a Apple IIgs computer" is false. Owning 1000 IIgs's
would not give you the right to violate the express IIgs ROM code copyright.
(If you want to use Bernie or offer it to users without a permission, you
should simply omit bogus excuses or admit, up front, that you are going to
have to violate Apple's copyright.)  Happily, there is no reason to believe
Apple minds this taking of liberties with its property.
 

     Now, go to the URL linked to on the Bernie site as the place to get the
IIgs ROM code (in case you've never been within 100 yards of a IIgs and
wouldn't know one from an Atari ST):

http://www.emulation.net/apple2/

     You will see a button labeled "Download" for getting the needed ROM.

     Do you want to guess where this button sends prospective Bernie users?
.

.

.

.

.

.

LOL! Would you believe Asimov?!!!


     Yes. The guys who can not find enough bad things to say about the
so-called "pirate site" see nothing wrong in depending upon the site as the
sole download source for the ROM code without which their super duper Mac
based IIgs emulator is so much junk.

     Alas, they send their users to ...

ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/emulators/rom_images/xgs.rom .

This site has been down for well over a month.

(Hey, Henrich, the "illegal" place to get the "illegal" IIgs ROM xgs.rom file
is Asimov's Georgia mirror. Change the link to
ftp://mirror.apple.asimov.net/emulators/rom_images/  and tell your users to
Right-click on "xgs.rom" to do the download. It may be necessary to use UnCook
to remove Text mode corruption. There are a couple other IIgs ROM files in
.zip form in the same folder. If one of them works for Bernie, the download
would be much less bother since ".zip" specifies a known MIME type.)



     Be sure to let us know when you guys get your act together.




Rubywand