Re: A Link of note

[Rubywand <rubywand@swbell.net>]

Paul Schlyter writes ...
> 
> In article <394F7620.D436AAB9@swbell.net>,
> Rubywand  <rubywand@swbell.net> wrote:
> 
> > Paul Schlyter writes ...
> 
 ....
> >
> > On the other hand, if the Dr. Dobbs devotee also uses the computer to
> > play Colossal Cave, then, it is no longer correct to
> > say that 'computer use' equals 'hobby'.
 ....
> 
> So if I poured over Dr Dobbs the way you described above, trying out
> alomst everything I found there, but happened to play Colossal Cave once
> or twice, then I no longer have computers as a hobby?
> 
> And what if I *create* my own adventure games, and give them away
> for free?
>

     The point is that, while many of your activities may fit the hobby
model, your computer remains the enabling tool, not, per se, a hobby. If your
hobby is painting murals on walnut shells, you would not consider yourself a
"paint brush hobbyist".


 ....
> 
> In my book, a "computer user" is someone who does *not* write his own
> programs, but only uses software written by others.

     I like the portrayal of "user" in the movie "Tron" better. A "user" is
someone who uses computers to do stuff, including to write programs. This
also matches the generally understood meaning of "small computer user" going
back to the late 1970's.


 ....

> > There is a natural tendency to lump the years 1975-1977 together and
> > think of them as the Byte-Altair-SWTP- ... pre-Apple II
> > times when everyone was fiddling with S-100 boards. 
> > However, it just is not the case. By 1977, bunches of
> > complete small computer systems (OSI, TRS-80, ...) running
> > high-level languages, including BASIC, were being sold, many with disk
> > drives.
> 
> Yes, but these computers had almost no end-user software.
 ....

     Not so. By 1977 there was quite a lot, more for some brands and models
than others.


> The owners of these computers had to write their own software:

     Depends upon what a user wanted to do. There were paint utilities,
financial packages, chess programs, adventure games, arcade games, disk
management utilities, ... . 

     A user might need to write a program for some special application or to
handle some task better than existing software did. But, then, this was true
five years later and is still true today.


> that makes them developers, not users.

     It makes them users who develop some piece of software. The term
"developer" usually applies to someone who creates a lot of software which is
distributed and used by others.


> If they did it for free, at their spare time, then it was a hobby.

     Model railroading is a hobby. Writing a program is programming.


> 
> Games and small utilities was all there was back in 1977.
 ....

     Check back through some 1977 issues of Byte.


 ....
> > However, if you program as a hobby, then _that_ is the
> > hobby. Unless all you do on the computer is hobby programing, you are
> > still a computer user not a "computer hobbyist".
> 
> Even if I use the computer, for free, at my spare time?
>

     Right. Doing something for free in your spare time does not make it a
hobby.

 
> The "computer" isn't merely the hardware: it's the software too, you know.
>

     Agree.

 
> 
> Then exactly WHAT decides of something is a hobby or a profession?
>

     Mainly, why you do what you do and, usually, the range of activities
involved.


> > As you say, some of the software was probably produced by users who
> > enjoy programming so much that it is a hobby activity. And, some of
> > the software was produced by users who, chiefly, program as a means
> > to an end -- i.e. in order to produce a desired program.
>
> People who program just to reach a specific goal (e.g. to program a
> phone book, or something), and then cease programming, such people
> will most likely write quite a horrible program...

     Maybe; but, that is not the situation which was described.

     The distinction is between those who program for the enjoyment of
programming and those who program in order to achieve specific results
whether or not the programming process is always enjoyable.


> 
> > In any case, the original spark for all of this discussion was Bill
> > Gates's use of the term "computer hobbyist" to describe users of BASIC
> > in 1977. After reviewing magazines from that period it is more plain
> > than ever that he was mistaken. Calling small computer users "hobbyists"
> > was an insult which, very likely, meant that most of what he said was
> > ignored.
> 
> Why is it an insult to call someone a hobbyist?
>

     It is not an insult so long as the person is a <whatever> hobbyist.

     Otherwise, it is likely to be an insult. Since a hobby is, by
definition, something you pursue for pleasure, the implication is a very
restricted commitment-- i.e., if some unpleasant or very trying challenge
arises, it may well be avoided. The hobbyist is not responsible to anyone for
producing a high quality product; and, hobby activities may be suspended at
any time leaving hobby projects unfinished.

     It's no wonder that the term "hobby" is universally perceived as
essentially diminutive. For example, it would be an insult to call a teacher
an "education hobbyist" or a lawyer a "law hobbyist".

     Today, it is fairly common for a user to shop for a motherboard, video &
sound cards, hard disk, ... and put together a PC. We do not call these users
"computer hobbyists". Putting together a computer is not something one does
for fun and it is not a continuous activity. You put together a computer to
have a computer which you can use as a tool.

     By 1977, most of those involved with 'small computing' hardware saw
themselves as engaged in putting together and upgrading their computers in
order to have a computer to use for a rapidly expanding range of
applications. They were 'small computer users', not "computer hobbyists".
 

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> In another of my interests - astronomy - there's a strong amateur
> movement: plenty of people buy, or build, their own telescopes, and
> then watch the skies just for enjoyment, or even to discover new
> comets and novae (about 1/3 of all newly discovered comets are
> discovered by amateurs).  They do this for free, at their space time,
> and they fund all their equipment themselves.  Sometimes there will
> pop up a discussion about exactly what makes someone an "amateur
> astronomer", however almost all skywatchers agree on that it's no
> insult to be called "amateur astronomer".

     Agree. Since there are professional astronomers who get to use big
expensive telescopes, the term "amateur astronomer" is not insulting.

     On the other hand, my inclination would be to side with those favoring a
change to just "astronomer". Many "amateurs" are as knowledgeable about
astronomy as any professional and do what professionals do. Being able to use
a 200 inch telescope whenever you like and get paid for it does not seem like
sufficient reason to call everyone else "amateurs". If the professionals
don't like the idea, let them call themselves "professional astronomers".



> There are even some
> professional astronomers who also are amateur astronomers -- on
> *their* spare time, when they watch the sky just for enjoyment, not
> because some research programme requires it.
> 
> People outside the amateur astronomy movement often think it's an
> insult to be called an "amateur": to them, "amateur" is the same as
> "incompetent".  But "amateur" has another meaning: someone who does
> something, not for profit or to make a living, but solely for the
> love of the subject.  Actually "amateur" really means "lover"
> (compare with the french "amour" and spanish and italian "amore").
> 
> Couldn't the word "hobby" be interpreted similarly to "amateur" ?
>

     Yes. They are similar. The usual distinction is that "amateur" is
typically applied to an activity for which a professional status exists. And,
"hobby" usually goes with activities which involve hand crafting. 


 
> (I just looked up the etymology of the word "hobby": it seems to
> have originated in English, as a nickname for "Robert")
 ....

     Maybe the Robert person invented the hobby horse.



Rubywand