Re: not enough real programmers? (was Re: Byte Magazine: 18 Vintage issues, 1985-1986)

[Victoria Welch <vikki@oz.net>]

Ruff Records wrote:
> 
> Donald Gillies wrote in message <7of2b2$ka2$1@cascade.cs.ubc.ca>...
> >"jsnyder" <jsnyder@trelis.com> writes:
> >
> >>This has been my experience over the last six months that I have been
> >>looking for a job;  25 years in the industry, h/w and s/w design.  But I
> >>don't fit neatly into the skill sheet that the HR droids use.  I even had
> >>one tell me that I didn't have the required qualification of writing
> >>'firmware' even though my resume lists 10 years of embedded work.

Just discovered this rude little awakening myself.  Until recently the
only people I ever interviewed with were other techies.  Now I am having
to deal with HR droids and it has been a shock.  It turns out that you
simply need to "write a program" that the marketing droids will bless. 
One apparently no longer writes a resume, it must be a reasonably full
blown marketing campaign.  Get a list of the current buzz words and in
your advertisement (I can't call it a resume anymore) just make sure the
marketing types (HR droids) see the words they *must* see.  That way you
stand a chance of getting to someone technical who will understand what
your skills actually are and *possibly* how vaulable.

> >I think that as you grow older you can no longer compete for the
> >entry-level jobs.  If you are looking for an entry-level job at age
> >50, people look at you as if there must be something wrong with you,
> >why hasn't your career made progress ??

Your career has undoubtably made progress, but while you have been
working away, new tools have come out and "everyone" has jumped on them
(rightly or wrongly) and if you have the current skills at all, you have
"entry level" amounts of those skills. Most people I know are reading
the "Teach yourself {whatever} in 21 minutes" type "courses" at breaks,
lunch and at home (and are thus "antisocial").

  The people who have "certifiable" skills the HR droids are looking for
are most likely just out of school and will work ludicris hours for
nothing and be glad to do it (for a while).  I'm not sure actual
experience counts for anything in the US. 
 
> So what valid reason would you have for why your career has not progressed
> further?

  The answer to this one stinks.  Your previous employer most likely
made no effort to see that your skills were extended and unless you are
willing to spend the day at work and nights at an accapted school, they
are not going to like whatever answer you give *honestly*.  Self
education used to count for something, but the marketing droids don't
seem to think it counts unless it has a college or university stamp of
approval on it.  Having "six months" of "Visual Basic" experience (and
10+ years of other various BASICs) and being 50 years old makes you look
like a "real looser" to the marketing er , ah,  HR droids.  Go figure...

  Also, if you have been in a very diverse environment and picked up
lots of skills in the process (for the most part on your own time and
initiative), the HR droids are very suspicious - I actually had one tell
me I was lying and that no one could have that many skills (sorry, tis
true, I do).  The problem gets worse if you have worked at a small
company that went out of business (The last "real" job I had, I walked
in one Monday morning to find the boss dead over the keyboard). 
Essentially unprovable after everyone you worked with has moved on.  A
lot of small companies eventually fold...

  I've had more than my fair share of jobs that "required the extra
effort" from you only that took 12+ hours a day commonly.  My last job I
walked out of after 150 hours of unpaid overtime in four months and
constant harrasment and abuse for more.  It wasn't the first one :-(. 
Should you ever rate your experience based on that, it creates more
problems that the HR droids simply can't comprehend.

  I'm sure those from big companies are going to flame me and tell me
how stupid I am.  I'd really like to work for an outfit that treats you
well (reasonably anyway :), but not all of us are lucky enough to get
into those, no matter how good we are.  More of us work for smaller
companies that do not have a cash flow to support the good life (company
abuse and greed aside).  Having to survive on your own with no backing
to stay in school and working long hours makes for some extremely
competent people short on formal qualifications and long on experience
(that took a lot of personal initiative to accomplish) and this creates
serious problems for the HR droids (and yourself).

  I don't know what the answer is, but my luck has gotten better since I
started writing papers that make the marketing, er, ah, HR droids
happy.  Small on skills and LONG on marketing hype (well, not actually
hype, but you get the idea).  It is HOW you write it up, I suspect that
the HR droids are pitifully unable to comprehend the technical
requirements that they are supposed to look for.

  I'm not convinced that there is a shortage of qualified technical
people in this country (native ones).  Technical qualifications are, at
best, poorly understood by those that do the hiring (or at least open
the door to it).  I know too many *GOOD* technical people who have left
the field over the frusteration - poor pay and long hours and too much
stress.  

  A number of years ago, I actually got to take a vacation.  Went to
visit a girlfriend of mine who had retired to a sailboat in southwest
Florida.  In the process I met about 30 technical people who were
"retired" and doing the liveaboard thing.  It shocked me that all these
people were still within working age and had gotten out of the field
because of the reasons I listed above.  More than a few of them were
burned out.  They still loved what they had done and I had some
incredible technical discussions - made it a wonderful vacation for a
techie outside of the disturbing revelations.

  Anyway, it seems that there is still hope for us older and experienced
folks - you just have to learn to play the HR game.

Take care, Vikki.
--
Victoria Welch, WV9K, DoD#-13, Net/Sys/WebAdmin SeaStar.org,
vikki.oz.net
"Walking on water and developing software to specification are
easy as long as both are frozen" - Edward V. Berard.
Do not unto others, that which you would not have others do unto you.