Re: Pirates of Silicon Valley

["Robert R. Dell" <robertdell@sprintmail.com>]

Steve Mentzer wrote:

> I am contemptuous towards other operating systems because I choose NOT to write
> software for them? When apple makes software development as EASY and EFFICIENT
> as it is for Win32, then I will start writing apps that port to other
> platforms.
>
> But I am not going to use archaic tools and development environments that are
> technically inferior just because I should "think different".

Well, I write programs the old fashioned way, with the keyboard and a compiler.  You'll be surprised how easy writing programs for the Mac is (when you spell properly that is, not like me on late nights constantly misspelling a word and trying to figure out what went wrong).  Either way you WILL have to write code by typing something.  There are approximately 240,000 lines of interfaces alone total (if you include them all in your project) and they are from Apple.  Another 100,000+ lines from Metrowerks (the compiler I happen to use).  If I don't know how to do something, I ask the development system "How do I draw a line on the screen" or "How do I put a button in my program" and out pops some generic code.  Performing standard user interface routines is cake.  Writing the code that actually does the job (whether that job happens to be operating a game or an emulator for the Apple 2), now that's the real work behind writing software.  There are skeleton projects that give you a
standard user interface when you start a project even and all you have to do is write the code to do whatever your job is.

The bottom line is this: Your words tell me you have never even attempted to write softweare for anything other than PC environments rather you take the words of other flamers and continue to spread the flame about to everybody you come in contact with.  Personally I code for ALL environments, I don't care what computer is going to use it.  I just add the appropiate user interface to the program and the program is completed (No, I can't write the Apple 2 emulator to make it run on the Apple 2).  I have written programs for a wide variety of computers (TRS-80,Apple //,NEC,Hewlett Packard 9836A(HPL 2.0, HP BASIC, HP Pascal, assembly),Cromemco, Medfly (cross between Apple // and Apple /// computer), Terak 8510-A (I'm not sure if it's this one or this is the dumb terminal of the computer but it executes p-code directly without an interpreter), Univax, Cray, Apple ///, TI 99-4A,Timex Sinclair ZX80,HP calculators (yes they are computers),Macintosh, PC, and several I can't think of at the
moment...) in my lifetime and the Mac is simply one that I believe in and will probably outlast me.

>
>
> >
> >I won't bother refuting any of this - it would be a waste of time as you are a
> >Microsoft drone. You do sound like a spokesperson for Microsoft however, maybe
> you
> >should spew your Microsoft propaganda somewhere else where people /might/
> believe
> >it..
> >
>
> You wont bother refuting any of it because you dont know any better. Look
> through the eyes of a developer and you see the argument in a whole different
> light.

Ok, from a developer's point of view here's my take... I want to make as much money as I possibly can so I'll write programs for the vast majority of computers out there (currently that's the PC).  I won't bother with the minority of computer users and will tell them anything I can to make them convert to what I write programs for so I might get another sale of my program.  There are a lot of programs out there on the development environment I use which are either public domain or not protected by any copyrights so I'll steal ideas from them to make my project (note I said steal ideas not code and you can't tell me you never ran a program and said "I like that, I'll put that in mine but make mine better").


>
> >
> >Netscape runs fine on PC's that don't have Internet explorer.
> >
>
> I think it crashes more than IE. Who is right here? You or me? I have used both
> browsers extensively. I think Netscrape crashes more. Are you calling me a
> liar too?

I agree.  Netscape has been crashing much more lately.

>
>
> >The media "hype" is slanted /towards/ Microsoft. If you want names, go look in
> a
> >phonebook. People like yourself have had years of brainwashing and any
> reasoning or
> >facts are useless against you - like some Orwellian existance you've been led
> to
> >believe 2 + 2 is 5 and the world is flat.

nnooo 2 + 2 = 22 ... and the world IS flat  (ever look at a world map?)    ;)  ::ducks::

>
> >
> >Windows was but a shell around DOS, an inefficient, inferior, bug-ridden,
> slap-shod
> >copy of a GUI it wanted to pretend it was. Windows 98 is a better mimic than
> the
> >earlier monkeys and a lot of the bugs have been repaired; although some
> replaced
> >with new bugs-  it is still crap.

I agree with that one however namecalling isn't going to get you anywhere.  I found out that the vast majority of the "bugs" in system software is something like a "oops, I forgot to initialize this pointer (or check it for validity) so it'll crash when this certain condition happens".  Instead of name calling, let's just get the programmers to test their pointers, ensure they are defined and pointing to the correct data, pre-initialize their variables, and double check their logic about a week AFTER they are finished with the project and their mind was on something else for that week like their vacation to Hawaii).  If we get them to do this, I'm willing to bet that 90% or more of all software bugs will be axed.  I found bizarre errors in one of my programs and it was the same error I get periodicly on some other commercial software.  I checked the code over 3 times and after a debugging session, I found out my pointers were not being set properly.  I put in one simple test to see if
a window was open or closed and it fixed all my problems.

>
> >
>
> FWIW- I hate Win9x. I like WinNT.

Actually, I like DOS better than Windows 9x.

>
>
> But I have NOT been brainwashed. I have been working in the field for 10 years
> now, and I have yet to see a platform offer so much support for developers and
> users alike as WIndows does.

Are you refering to the software or the company?  If you are refering to the software then the Macintosh OS has Windows beat hands down.  If you are refering to company technical support... well, there's a lot to be desired from Apple that Microsoft provides... at 1-800 numbers too!  Apple used to back in the good ole days but they discontinued that years back (Hmmm about the time all the developers left the Mac for the PC environment).

> Maybe when apple starts putting together their own brand of VB and makes
> writing MacOS software easier, people like me might reconsider our decisions.
> But the honus is on Apple, and not on me.

VB on the mac? never happen.  VB is a registered trademark of Microsoft corp and IS available in their Office suite for the Macintosh.  Apple provides REGISTERED developers with either free or low cost machines and development software to get their product out.  You wouldn't even WANT to know what Apple requires to be a REGISTERED developer though (something akin to first born male child comes to mind).  Even though I don't beleive in VB, I do support your decision to actually use it for your software.  My brother used VB to write some software for the PC (converting it to Pascal is going to be "fun").

>
>
> Give me a stable, robust, easy to use development environment for the MacOS and
> I will use it. Programming is supposed to be fun, challenging, and interesting.
> It is NOT supposed to be painful.

Well, that's exactly what we are doing now.  We're creating a new development system for the Macintosh machines.  The "We" I refer to is a group of 32 people working on an internet project I started when the last Pascal compiler company for the Macintosh announced they are discontinuing Pascal (for both their PC systems and Mac).