Re: Apple IIGS info and stuff

[supertimer@aol.com (Supertimer)]

spec@vax2.concordia.ca (Mitchell Spector) wrote:

>In article supertimer@aol.com (Supertimer) writes...
>
>>"Myconid" <myconid@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>Can someone tell me how advanced a IIgs realy is? Can they take modems and
>>>hard drives and sound cards?  Mine had a built in speaker..
>>
>>The IIgs is a classic today.  I'll say it so that Mitchell does not have to
>>(again)....it won't compare to a Pentium or PowerMac.  There, I said it.
>
>    Trying to vilify me for being a realist? :) You might as well

I'm not trying to vilify you but rather trying to stave off your inevitable
comparisons to your wonderful modern Pentium.  I know you love
that unit, but you do not have to compare it every single time to the
IIGS.  ;-)

>throw in it doesn't compare to a 486 or even most 386's. As for a

Well now, in math functions or games with lots of calculations
(Wolf 3D) perhaps, but not in all areas.  Have you tried running
GEM on an EGA or even a CGA equipped early 386?  Kind of
funny to watch it slugging around (pushing NO MORE PIXEL
DATA THAN THE IIGS) compared to even an unaccelerated GS.

And GEM does less and uses less memory than GS/OS.

I'd venture to say that FOR MOST TASKS (not Wolf 3D), an
accelerated IIGS unit is a hell lot better than a 16Mhz 386
unit (the typical 386)....example, try word processing under
GEM.

But wait a minute, strike that since you have had bad experience
with AWGS (contrast this to Steve, Joe, and myself who have
had good experience with the program).  ;-)  No wonder you
have a different view of productivity programs on the IIGS....
your AWGS experience has clouded your judgement!

>couple of the early PowerMac's, I thought it compared quite well
>equipped with an accelerator (the Finder seemed sluggish on the
>6100/60 PPMac's I used back in 1995, compared with my GS Finder).

You sure do have a bias against Macs.  I mean, I use Windows
PCs too, but first you say that an accelerated IIGS is slower
than a 386 (I KNOW this is NOT true when comparing GS/OS
running on an accelerated IIGS compared to GEM on a 16Mhz
386) and now you turn around and say the PowerMac Finder is
slower....in effect saying that a PowerMac runs Finder slower
than a 16Mhz 386!

>    This probably has no logic in it, maybe because its all based on 
>sentiment, though my Pentium (as well as any Mac's I've used) lack 
>any of the magic the GS has. There's just something about the IIgs
>which makes it seem special, though I can't quite put my finger on
>it. Apparently I'm not the only one who feels this way from people
>I've spoken with. Maybe it was the jump from an 8-bit Apple II to
>the IIgs? Hard to say, but it still remains my favorite computer.

Finally, a sane statement.  ;-)

>>Here are the vital facts about the IIGS....
>
>>5. CPU:
>>     Western Design Center (not to be confused with Western
>>     Digital, the hard drive maker) 65C816 running at 2.8Mhz.
>
>    To nit pick here, when used in the IIgs the processor ran
>at around 2.6 MHz due to RAM refreshes. The only circumstance
>where it ran at a full 2.8 MHz was when accessing ROM firmware.
>(It makes a noticable difference on the ROM 3, where Quickdraw
>toolsets are fetched from ROM rather than RAM).

What a nitpick! ;-)  Dude, the manual says 2.8Mhz, so I say
2.8Mhz.  By your logic, then, the manual is not to be trusted,
so your correction to my ROM specification below (you say
the manual does not say it supports 8MB ROM expansion) is
also wrong (and it IS in FACT wrong....RamKeeper and a
similar Cirtech card supported 8MB of ROM expansion).

>>     ROM is expandable to 8MB (some cards use ROM
>
>    I thought the Apple IIgs could expand its ROM to a
>maximum of 1 MB. This is what is printed in techincal
>references at any rate.

RamKeeper and Cirtech clone used ROM space....8MB
of ROM space.  They supported up to 16MB total, 8MB
RAM and 8MB as ROM.  The ROM was used to store a
stat disk (RAM disk backed by battery).

>>7. RAM:
>>     The Apple IIGS is expandable to 8MB of RAM
>>     with the right memory card.
>
>    True, however the IIgs will only support DMA to the first
>4 MB plugged into the expansion slot (this applies to all GS
>revisions--the ROM 00, 01 and 3).

With certain cards, it will support DMA to all 8MB.

That's besides the point.  The statement is still correct one
way or the other....the IIGS is expandable to 8MB of RAM.
Or don't you trust your IIGS manual?  If you don't, then you
should not trust it at all and your above criticism of ROM
expansion (wrong) is based on manuals.  ;-)

>>     Both Alltech
>>     Electronic (www.allelec.com) and Sequential Systems
>>     (www.sequential.com) are selling 8MB memory cards as
>>     of April 1988.
>
>    I assume that was a typo. :) There were no 8 MB cards being
>sold in 1988, aside from MDIdeas' OctoRAM card.

Touche.  ;-)  That was a typo.  I meant as of 1998.  ;-)

>>10. Display:
>
>>        --640x200 with 4 pure colors: this mode is bland
>>          and is not often used.
>
>    Actually it is the same mode as below, only the same four
>colors are copied and repeated in each of the 4 mini-palettes
>so you end up with four pure colors.

No it is not.  You do not dither with this mode.  Read on.

>>        --640x200 with 16 dithered colors: in this mode, the
>>          pixels in the graphic screen are grouped into
>>          even and odd columns.  The even columns can have a
>>          palette of 4 pure colors out of a of 4096 possible.
>>          The odd columns can have a second palette of 4
>>          pure colors.  The GS dithers the adjacent colors
>>          for 4x4=16 dithered colors.  This mode is widely
>>          used in productivity programs and also in Apple's
>>          Finder for the GS.
>
>    White and black get repeated in each of the 4 mini-palettes,
>so you have them in both the odd and even pixel columns. That is
>why you have readable text in the 640 mode (it'd be difficult to
>read if text were dithered). So there are 6 pure colors usually
>present in the 640 mode, of which only 2 remain pure (black and
>white)--the other 4 get mixed to make the 16 dithered colors.

Yes, colors are repeated in the mini-palettes, but this is
still the MODE used.  If 4 colors were used over the compete
screen as one palette, then you would have the other MODE.

As a comparison, you CAN'T get CGA mode on a PC to
replicate the IIGS 640 mode with 16 dithered colors.  CGA
is similar to the first 640 mode, but NOT AT ALL to this
second dithered mode.

>    Using dithering in this mode is kind of retro in that it
>artificially recreates the color placement restrictions that
>were present in old 8-bit Apple II. You often end up halfing
>the resolution and create color fringing too (all in all, it
>can be an ugly mode).

I don't consider it this way.  You are using black and white
at the full resolution and that's what's important.  The other
colors, they just fill in blank areas with dithered colors, and
that's what's important.

>>        --Fill mode: for faster rendering of graphics, the
>>          fill mode is a hardware mode in which an outline
>>          of a graphic can be drawn and the outline filled
>>          by a solid color without needing to draw in all the
>>          pixels.
>
>    There are limitations. You only have 15 colors available
>in this mode per-line and there is only one start and one stop
>pixel to mark the area to be filled. For this reason, you cannot
>have fill mode objects overlap each other, which is what is
>a key element in writing games with sprites.

Sure, nonetheless it is a useful mode.

>>  SVGA modes with 24-bit color can be added with an additional
>>  video card (see the Second Sight SVGA card at Sequential
>>  Systems http://www.sequential.com/ ).
>
>    No comment. ;)

The only sane reply since you don't have nor have you ever
seen in action the card.

>>     The Apple IIGS also has all the graphics modes found on
>>     the Apple IIc.
>>        --Text mode: 40x24 and 80x24.  Characters are formed
>>          by a 7x8 pixel matrix. Text mode is monochrome but
>>          can be set to a specific color.  The background
>>          and boarder can each be set to different colors.
>>          Text mode is rarely used in GS programs since the
>>          OS, GS/OS, has a graphic desktop.
>
>    Using scanline interrupts, you can do neat tricks like having
>the foreground, background and border color changed on a line by
>line basis (much like the 256 color mode, only you have multi-
>colored ASCII text in this case).

Now this is something I didn't know.  Do you know of any
programs that use this multi-colored ASCII?  I would love
to see it in action, if only in a demo!  Thanks for bringing this
capability to my attention.

>>        --High Resolution: 280x192 pixels in 6 colors
>
>    That resolution is only producable in monochrome mode. When you
>add color, it is effectively reduced to 140x192.
>
>>        --Double High Resolution: 560x192 pixels in 16 colors.
>
>    Same as above, when color is added it is reduced to 140x192.

Yup.  My mistake.  David Empson said the same, but I did
not have an opportunity to make the correction yet.

>>>        --Combinations/Variations: 4 lines of text mode can
>>          be mixed with a truncated Low Resolution or High
>>          Resolution mode graphic.  The text in mixed mode can
>>          be either 40 column or 80 column.  Double Low Res
>>          and Double High Res modes can't be mixed with text.
>
>    Nope, you _can_ mix 80 columns text with graphics in the
>Double-High-Res mode and possibly in Double-Low-Res as well.

Yup.  David Empson said the same.

>>     The difference between a UniDisk and a IIGS 3.5" drive
>>     is that the IIGS drive is controlled directly by the
>>     computer while the UniDisk has a separate processor.
>>     The UniDisk is thus much slower (up to 4x slower) than
>>     a IIGS 3.5" drive.
>
>    The UniDisk 3.5 is actually closer to half the speed of
>of an Apple 3.5 drive.

It is pretty bad when you factor interleave and if the disks
are HFS, access time is closer to 4x slower on the UniDisk.

The UniDisk is terrible.

>>     The Apple IIGS often shipped with the Apple High Speed
>>     (DMA) SCSI controller in an expansion slot for
>>     controlling SCSI devices.  Even 100MB Zip Drives and
>>     1GB Jazz Drives work on this SCSI port.
>
>    Hmm? I don't recall Apple ever pre-installing SCSI boards
>inside the unit at shipping time. They did at one time install
>Apple IIgs Memory Expansion Cards as standard, which meant GS
>machines shipped with 512K for a period.

If often was equipped in systems.  Many dealers were selling
basic systems and power systems.  Power systems typically
included the Apple SCSI card.

>>     In one final gasp, the Apple II supporters at Apple
>>     designed the Apple IIGS Plus, code named "Mark Twain."
>>     It had an 8Mhz 65C816, a built in SuperDrive, 2MB
>>     on the motherboard, and a hard drive.  Prototypes
>
>   Where did you come up with an 8 MHz 65C816? All the Mark
>Twain prototypes that have been discovered have the same 40
>pin DIP 65C816 running at 2.6 MHz as other GSes. It is quite
>plausible a faster processor would have been added to the
>final production model

It did not have an 8Mhz 65C816?  Oops.  ;-)

(If Mark Twain was released, it would have been woefully under
powered without an 8Mhz unit....why not just plug in your
Zip GS instead of buying a Mark Twain?  Even the IIc Plus
was faster.)