Re: Delphi Vogons

[Rubywand <rubywand@swbell.net>]

Jeff Blakeney writes ...
> 
> On Sat, 23 May 1998 13:48:52 -0500, Rubywand <rubywand@swbell.net>
> wrote:
> 
> >     Maybe. However, you are talking about a small, sterile, environment
> >which seems on the way to becoming smaller and more sterile. If there is
> >not, soon, an end to the constant meddling of forum managers and
> >suppression of discussion of important issues, more individuals and
> >groups will announce their departure from Delphi (e.g. a recent email
> >group notification) or they will say nothing and simply not show up any
> >more.
> 
> If the meddling by the forum managers is in reference to the recent
> thread about the Asimov site that the forum managers killed, I'd have
> to say that they were doing there job.  That's what we "pay" them for,
> to keep inappropriate material out of the Forum.
> 
> And it is funny because the thread had died out quite nicely with no
> hard feelings from anyone when someone with a user name of SIFAN (I
> wonder who that could be?) started up the whole nasty business again.
> That is when the forum staff stepped in and took charge before the
> thread could get any nastier.

 ....

     This is a bit of a distortion of the truth, is it not? What
happened is that a Delphi user asked how to reach Asimov. He/she
received the typical Asimov-hater responses from the resident Vogons and
seemed 'put down' and disappointed. SiFan simply provided the current
Asimov URL (i.e. answered the user's question); whereupon he/she was
attacked.

     After a string of attack messages, SiFan posted a final, polite
message acknowledging the end of the discussion. Perhaps you never had a
chance to read the message because the forum managers chose to preserve
all of the Asimov attack postings-- many of which included threats, name
calling, and/or accusations of "piracy"--  and to delete the message
from SiFan.

     SiFan then posted a response to a message from the Delphi forum
manager-- the one announcing that the thread dealing with the Asimov
question would be hidden-- in the "From the Staff" thread. The SiFan
message ended with a question: 'Do you fear that A2-Delphi users can not
make up their own minds about what is true and what is not. Or, do you
fear that they can?' 

     Having, by now, become accustomed to A2-Delphi tactics, SiFan
preserved a few copies. Here is the Delphi A2 forum manager's response:

>>

What I fear is that the same sort of jerks that frequent other online
areas with lies and provocation will think that they can hang out here
and do the same. 

That turns out not to be the case. Flames and flamers will not be
tolerated. 


All the previous messages regarding privacy and Asimov have been
removed, not because the subject is forbidden, but because certain
people think they have a license to press thier views with extreme
rudeness. 

We dislike rudeness even more than we dislike piracy. 

Any further discussion of this issue will be deleted as soon as it is
seen by a staff member. 

If you think that is rude of ME, well, you're right. Too bad.

<<

 ....


> 
> If the e-mail group that left Delphi that you refer to is Texas II,
> the Appleworks user group, she did not leave because of meddling by
> the forum staff, she left because she didn't feel that Delphi would be
> an asset for her to keep.

     Small wonder!


> I'm not even sure that she has left yet
> because I've seen some messages from her after she said she would no
> longer be there.  By the way, she had cancelled her Compuserve account
> just before appearing on Delphi.

     Perhaps she hoped to find an on-line service dedicated to the Apple
II which was not run by nitwits.



> She now has her own web page and a
> mailing list but I don't have the information handy.  I can get it if
> anyone wants it.
>

     If you like; but, you may wish to avoid referring too many users to
Beverly. She may not be especially pleased with the way her response to
a SiFan message was handled.

     Although SiFan messages to "From the Staff" were being deleted by
the Vogons as quickly as they could find a staff member who is also a
reader, some A2-Delphi users did read them and responded. So long as the
response was negative, it was preserved. Here is a SiFan response (19
May 1998)
to one such message:


>>>

Dear Nick Heywood,

Below is UTTER's response to a simple question regarding a fear of
discussing an important issue-- i.e. the benefits of archive sites like
Asimov. He posted ...

>>
What I fear is that the same sort of jerks that frequent other online
areas with lies and provocation will think that they can hang out here
and do the same. 

That turns out not to be the case. Flames and flamers will not be
tolerated. 


All the previous messages regarding privacy and Asimov have been
removed, not because the subject is forbidden, but because certain
people think they have a license to press thier views with extreme
rudeness. 

We dislike rudeness even more than we dislike piracy. 

Any further discussion of this issue will be deleted as soon as it is
seen by a staff member. 

If you think that is rude of ME, well, you're right. Too bad.
....
<<

The UTTER person is the one calling names. He admits to being rude and
says it is "too bad". Evidently, he believes that it is okay to suppress
discussion when his position is shown to be flawed.

The odd thing about the response of the manager of this little piece of
Delphi is that it came after participants had agreed to end the
discussion.


You comment ...

>>
I would suggest that most of the users here are here because of the
benefits of action Taken by the staff relating to this thread
....
<<

This seems very unlikely. Most users welcome a discussion of important
Apple II issues. Relatively few persons truly enjoy being 'protected'
from the truth.


>>
I made up my mind before I joined delphi and this action is a good
reason to stay!!!!! 
<<

Perhaps it seems so now. But, truly, is this not the same rationale
employed by those who join and never leave AOL?


>>
Don't like it? LEAVE!!!!! 
<<

After numerous 'please join Delphi' postings to comp.sys.apple2, it
seemed only fair to explore this new A2 nook of the internet. It is a
bit of an adventure.

A2 Delphi has potential. It should be possible for Apple II users to
cooperate, work to develop, and to benefit from all such resources.


SiFan

<<<



     Of course, the SiFan response was deleted from the message base.
Unfortunately for the Vogons, it was not deleted quickly enough. Beverly
responded (5/19/98) ...

>>>

> Most users welcome a discussion of important Apple issues. 

I have to agree. I think that a great opportunity was missed to 
possibly work something out, and clean things up. 

We could use some sort of "Web compliance" committee or person. 

Beverly Cadieux 
TEXAS II An international newsletter for users of AppleWorks(R) 5.1 
The Apple II Mail Group: Randy Brandt on AppleWorks ownership and 
licensing; The IW2 tests. CrossWorks..Monitor probs..SEG.Anxiety. 

<<<


     SiFan's response to Beverly was, naturally, deleted.

     Perhaps you can explain why the thread, as of today, is shown as
having 105 messages when the one positive response is message 106? Why
is it necessary to dig through the message base in order to read
Beverly's message and why is it denoted "106 of 105"?


 
> By the way, did you get yourself an account or are you just relying on
> hearsay?

     Are you kidding?



Rubywand