Supertimer writes ...
>
> Rubywand <rubywand@swbell.net> wrote:
....
>>
Since more than one disk side can go into a file, it does not seem
likely that D33L's format is compatible with emulators.
<<
> Actually, the images D33L creates are compatible with ONE
> emulator at least. Back a few years ago when emulators were novel
> ideas, there was one for the Mac called II in a Mac. A Mac LC user
> on a BBS I frequented got this emulator and I at the time just found
> DOS 3.3 Laucher. I made an image of an issue of Uptime disk
> magazine using D33L and sent it to him for testing. To his surprise,
> it worked!
....
> I tried using DSK on D33L
> and D33L images on the II+ emulator. Sometimes it would seem
> to work some (running the Copy II+ on the II+ emulator and catalog
> a D33L image named as a DSK file...you'll sometimes see a list
> of files, ...maybe half scrambled...). Obviously the two image
> formats are very close.
>
This makes sense and is a reason direct format compatibility was
not mentioned as a major barrier. In fact, I do not know for sure that
at least some DSK files will not work with D33L. Anyway, it's
encouraging to hear that the formats do not seem to be totally alien.
>>
One major limitation is not being able to run DOS 3.3 products
which use the Language Card space in which D33L puts ProDOS. This
eliminates "64k" games which want to use the space.
<<
>
> Read the doc you posted -- D33L puts ProDOS in AUXILIARY mem.
> This is not the language card space from 48k to 64k, but the IIe's
> Extended 80 Column Card space...that's why D33L's author left the
> space for the graphics memory unused so that DHR will work. I
> think, for example, deprotected Airheart will run with D33L....
Yes; I screwed up there. Being able to run 64k games helps a great
deal.
>>
Another major limitation is requiring that the product use the
standard RWTS. Even software which has been copy-deprotected may retain
a non-standard RWTS. These products would have to be detected and either
modified or excluded.
<<
>
> But...many wares are already deprotected...
>
> I agree, though, and one of the drawbacks of II in a Mac (other than
> the poor performance...0.5Mhz max equivalent on a Mac LC III, most
> of the time much less...speed fluctuates...) was that protected wares
> could not be run...without deprotection....
....
It turns out that to expect a good disk image of some protected
wares is asking, very nearly, for magic. How, for example, do you
produce an image of a diskette employing half and quarter tracks plus
"spiral arcing"? Maybe with a 140-track 5.25" drive and high-resolution
head to match you could produce a 560k image. Then, the poor emulator
would have to make sense out of the result.
An image creator and corresponding emulator program which can deal
with all copy-protected software is not a realistic design objective;
so, it's no big deal that no emulator does.
The reason for concern about the need for using the standard RWTS
is that a diskette can be copiable ("de-protected") without the DOS on
the diskette following standard RWTS 'rules'. It's hard to say how many
DSK files may have been created from such "de-protected" diskettes.
An emulator (or computer) which just goes ahead and uses the
non-standard DOS and weird RWTS has no problem. An image creator which
looks for a standard RWTS on a "de-protected" source diskette using a
weird RWTS will either reject the diskette or create a mess.
Since the 64k problem is not a problem, it may be worthwhile to
just go ahead and try using D33L with a bunch of 'de-protected' "DOS
3.3" games and see what happens.
If a high-percentage work, then, maybe, the others can be further
de-protected. Maybe not. Even if we leave the current D33L and DSK
formats alone, we would still have an incentive to, at least, find a way
to transform many DSK files for use with D33L.
One possible snag is the risk involved. The testor may find that a
"no-success" indicator is having his/her hard disk trashed.
> I'll be very happy with a DSK to D33L util
> for converting images
....
> I know it probably will not happen,
> but it would be cool if it did!
If the author of D33L should hear about this discussion, we might
have a lot of questions cleared up and not be so far from making real
progress.
By the way, if you added a 5.25" drive, you could be in on the
'ground floor' for a shot at doing some testing!
Rubywand