Re: Asimov performs a valuable service; so why fight over it

[pfg@cs.rmit.edu.au (Paul Francis Gilbert)]

GUDATH@EZINFO.VMSMAIL.ETHZ.CH (Henrik 'Ratte' Gudat) writes:

>In <353D83A4.D25D4262@swbell.net> Rubywand writes:

>> > You can turn it the way you want, but it's still piracy.
>> 
>>      So you say. You are mistaken.

>Sorry, no. It is forbidden by law to copy software you don;t own the copyright
>of. 

>Is that really so complicated to understand? 

Yes it is, because you're wrong. As I mentioned previously with my 
Ultima 4 example, Origin still maintains copyright to it, but it is freely
distributable. Indeed, the whole ediface of shareware rests on the
fact that an author can create software which he copyrights, yet still
allow free distribution of it. Are you seriously trying to itimate that
every person who's ever downloaded a shareware program is in fact breaking
the law?!

>Most people here at least agree that Asimov is pirating but are questioning if
>copyrights make a sense with old Apple II software. This is a point of
>discussion. I'm against that attitude but i can follow their reasoning to some
>degree. You are even arguing about what piracy is so there's no incentive for
>me to further discuss with this topic.

Probably... the trouble is that this thread is encompassing several related
but distinct topics: 1) what exactly is piracy?, 2) the moral issues and
technicalities. You seem ceneted on the first issue: and as myself and
others have pointed out, your definition of piracy seems a little
inaccurate. Remember: copying a copyright program is *not* automatically
piracy... shareware is built on the foundation of allowing free distrubition
yet still maintining copyright.


>> > The definition of
>> > piracy is not dealing with who gets hurt or not but that the right to > copy
>> > software is being violated by a third party.
>> 
>>      Evidently, "the definition of piracy" is whatever you feel like it
>> should be at any given moment. Asimov is under no legal constraint to
>> protect speculators in old, out of print wares.

>This is just *plain* *wrong*. Show me the law that supports your point of view.
>Show me.

Again... "shareware"... "shareware". That's pretty much understood globally,
and I seriously doubt any law makes it illegal to copy shareware programs. ;-)


> 
>>     And, so, would it be fair to call you a "Promoter of Piracy"? Of
>> course not. Yet, without disk image archive sites and Mac users
>> interested in downloading disk images, everyone knows very well that
>> your Bernie IIgs emulator would be merely a nice curiosity. 

>Ok, we've now arrived at the personal flaming level. I'm not such an
>opportunist to accept everything that I or my business might profit from. If
>it's illegal, we have to  have to find alternate ways. I'm doing my share by
>reclassififying my own software, and there will likely be more coming soon.

Agreed, let's keep flaming out of it [unless of course Nathan starts 
ranting, in which case I reserve the right to flame him ;-)]. Certainly 
reclassifying a program solves any problems with regards to distribution.

>Another thing that really bugs me is associating emulators with piracy. If that
>is what you;re suggesting, tune in on the mailing list and see what people are
>accomplishing with legal copies. Asimov is of convenience to people who'd like
>to keep using their software without messing with disk copiers. If I had to
>decide between Asimov and protecting copyrights, I'd choose the latter one.

Agreed... my original Apple library was pretty comprehensive, but I've still
been unable to find a Super Serial Card locally for an Apple to let me
transfer my disks over, so Asimov allows me to bypass it. 

>Your motivation is getting a free ride. You're not hurting someone specific in
>the short run, but people with such an opportunistic logic and the constant
>desire to profit do hurt everyone in the long run. No system, be it public
>goods or software, can get along with such people.

>Thank you. End of message.

>-henrik


--
Paul Gilbert           | pfg@yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au (The DreamMaster)
Bach App Sci, Bach Eng | The opinions expressed are my own, all my own, and
Year 5, RMIT Melbourne | as such will contain no references to small furry
Australia	       | creatures from Alpha Centauri.