Re: Wozniak vs Jobs

[supertimer@aol.com (Supertimer)]

Jeff Lemke <lemke@terra.cira.colostate.edu> wrote:

>Now I don't have a market analysis in front of me for the computer
>industry for the time period we're talking about, but I do know that it
>was never even close to "Apple all by itself".  Perhaps Apple commanded
>50% market share at its very peak in the first few years, but no more
>than that.

Actually, I recall reading that 9 out of every 10 computers sold
during the early days was an Apple II.  This was maybe the
1977 to early 1980s period (right up to the IBM PC).  Apple
controlled the schools and sold to some businesses and some
homes.  Commodore and Tandy vied for the home market, but
that was a very small market.  AFTER the IBM PC came out,
that's when the C64 started taking off...we are talking about
the famous bar chart commercials with the Mozart music telling
the legions of home users that Commodore was selling more
computers than Apple and IBM combined...and they were...
but only when you looked at the entire computer industry (home,
enducation, and business) together...see, Commodore sold each
C64 at much less and with much less profit than Apple or IBM
computers...

>Commodore's share may have started small with their PET's
>and CBM's

The PET and CBM were a very small inroad into education, although
the CBM was quite capable (80 columns even).

>but Tandy was a very important contender and close rival of
>Apple's from the beginning.  The TRS-80 Model 1 and the Apple II arrived
>within a couple months of each other in 1977.  Tandy had so many orders
>for Model I's that it took them 2 years for their production to catch up
>to demand.  What was the attraction for TRS-80's?  They were much more
>affordable than Apple II's.  (And so were Commodore's, especially the
>Vic 20 and Commodore 64.)

I recall that the TRS-80 models were FAR behind Commodore in the
home and in the early days, they were FAR behind Apple in the
market as a whole.  Later, the Coco did become very popular in the
home, but I am sure the C64 was much more popular.

I just don't remember ANY time the TRS-80 was neck to neck
with Apple before the IBM PC's arrival...

Now AFTER Compaq, Tandy did start taking off with their IBM PC
clones, but then they were no longer TRS-80...they became part
of the clone segment of the market...

>Tandy boasted around 1980 or so that more Tandy computers had been sold
>than any other make.  If true, it was probably by a small margin, but I
>do know that Tandy sold hundreds of thousands of Model I computers in
>the first three years, and in the ensuing years they did have a

Compared to millions of Apple II units before IBM.
Compared to very many millions of Commodore units after IBM.

>surprising measure of success with their Z-80/68000 business computers,
>and also released various low end 6809 color computers, portable, pocket
>and laptop computers (the first one being the Model 100), and a mess of
>desktop Z-80 and 8088 and 'x86 computers for fifteen years.  Tandy had
>thousands of Radio Shack stores across the country to sell from, and
>they had more different makes of computers to suit every need than any
>other computer maker I'm aware of, and they produced, or had produced
>for them, all sorts of their own peripheral devices.

Now the Model 100 was in fact a very popular "laptop" before laptops
became popular.  They were used with news agencies and the like
and even by Apple II users looking for a portable terminal.  These
were not really mainstream personal computers, though...

>Tandy had all the outlets it needed, and it knew how to market.  But
>they too were overly proprietary in the beginning, and as time went on
>they seemed to become increasingly greedy, trying to maintain huge
>profit margins.  As the years went by and competition increased among
>the PC clone makers, Tandy found it more and more difficult to maintain
>the 50 to 100% profit margins it had grown accustomed to, and in 1993
>(roughly) they decided it was no longer in their interest to manufacture
>their own computers.  They decided they couldn't make enough money at it
>any more to suit them, so they got out.  Tandy has always seemed to me
>to depend on huge profit margins.  Everything in their stores, like home
>stereo and video equipment, always seemed to be marked up a lot more
>than at places like Best Buy and other audio/video outlets.  Even their
>cassette tapes were half again to twice as much as comparable TDK or
>Sony cassettes.  Radio Shack's 'niche' (to use a word that some don't
>want to hear anymore) is that they're quite often the only place in a
>given town that sells electronic components and certain stereo and video
>items and police scanners and RC toys and things like that.  They quite
>often have a corner on the market for that kind of stuff in a great many
>towns and cities, so they don't have to price their merchandise very
>competitively, and they still make out pretty well.

When I became an Apple IIe user in the early 1980s, I went to Radio
Shack for disks.  A box of 10 5.25" disks were $20!!!  Later, I found
that the department stores were selling other name brand disks for
half or less than half of the Radio Shack price.  I have to admit that
the Radio Shack disks were better quality, though.  They felt thicker
and better built...I still have my first Apple IIe formatted TRS-80 brand
disk...but no more 5.25" drive on the GS to use it...(all high density
3.5" and Iomega Zip media and hard drives these days)...