Re: Some Apple // hardware questions!

[pubpc1@library.ucla.edu]

mkelsey@eecs.wsu.edu (Michael Kelsey) wrote:
>dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:
>> Original Apple SCSI card: 7 partitions under ProDOS-8, 63 under GS/OS.
>>
>> Apple High-Speed SCSI card: 111 partitions under ProDOS-8 (in theory),
>> 63 under GS/OS.
>>
>> RamFast SCSI card: 14 partitions under ProDOS-8 or GS/OS (as far as I
>> know).
>>
>> ProDOS-8 itself has a limit of 14 units (logical devices).  One is used
>> up for the /RAM volume, and you need one for every other disk drive
>> connected to the system (in normal circumstances, two are reserved for
>> each slot containing a disk controller).  In most systems, this limits
>> you to 11 SCSI partitions assuming you only have one floppy disk
>> controller card, or 9 partitions if you have two disk controller cards
>> (e.g. 5.25" and 3.5" drives).
>
>Is there some driver I would have to load from the primary drive [slot x,
>drive 1 where slot x is the physical slot of the SCSI adapter] in order
>to access any additional drives?  With the QRAM //e 1MB card, I have
>to load a device driver for using the extended memory under ProDOS.

Under ProDOS 8, you don't have to load drivers from disks to use the
SCSI cards.  They are in the card's ROM.  Only GS/OS users need to
install GS/OS specific drivers for extra speed and # of partitions
that the GS operating system supports.

>I am wondering if I could map in slots 1,2,4,5 for this purpose?  Obviously
>slot 3 drives 1 and 2 are absorbed by the RAM drives [/RAM and /QRAM]

ProDOS 8 automatically maps the drives and yes, 1,2,4, and 5 could be
used even if you already have (non disk) cards in them.

>> As far as hardware compatibility goes: the original Apple SCSI card
>> (which is the slowest of the three main ones) works on any Apple II, the
>> Apple High-Speed card requires an enhanced IIe or IIgs (and is second
>> fastest), and the RamFast works as you noted according to the revision.
>
>For the purpose of the Apple //e, which would you recommend?  I would be
>limited by ProDOS 8 to a maximum of 14 devices anyhow [unless I wanted
>to rewrite some major portions of code - yikes!]

The RamFAST is probably better since it is still available (see
http://www.sequential.com/).  However, if you ever add an ZipChip
accelerator to your IIe or have one in there right now, the Apple
II High Speed SCSI card is the one that's compatible.


>>> A Macintosh external 800K drive [in good condition] has also come into my
>>> possession.
>
>This is a the traditional Macintosh 800K external drive, one you would
>connect to a beige Macintosh.  There is no daisy chain option
>on the back and it has no eject button.  A while back I remember seeing
>this exact model connected to a Laser 128EX.  From the information you've
>listed, I would neet to locate a UDC.  Any ideas who carries this
>product and the RAMFast/Apple HSS ?

Sequential Systems (http://www.sequential.com/) makes and carries
the RamFAST.  The Apple II High Speed SCSI is no longer being made,
but Sun Remarketing has some refurbished ones (http://www.sunrem.com/).
As for the UDC, you can try contacting Laser Computers/VTech, who
are based in Hong Kong.  They made (make?) the card.  Shreeve Systems
might also still have them.

>On a quick note, how would I be able to discern if my current SCSI
>controller supports DMA?  The manual was put together ad-hoc, basically
>photocopied [with a color cover] and stapled.  The performance is quite
>good, nowhere as fast as RAM, but I have never found myself waiting
>any length of time for programs to load.  I mention this since I saw
>another post with someone who had a SCSI controller w/o DMA and they
>mentioned it wasn't much faster than a 3.5" drive.  I realize that
>this is a poor example, but Copy II Plus 9.1 loads instantly,
>as does Publish-It! 4.0 [overlays disabled].

If it is a RamFAST or an Apple II High Speed SCSI, then it supports
DMA.  If it is any other SCSI card, it does not support SCSI.

Even without SCSI, modern SCSI hard drives are much faster than floppy
drives.  Mitchell's comment about speed referred to a very old
(1984-ish) hard drive, which would have been slow no matter what.  :)

>>> Would it be possible to transfer data between a PC and the Apple //e if I
>>> could interface the drive with the Apple?
>>
>> Not with the Macintosh 800K drive.  The PC cannot read Apple 400K and
>> 800K disk formats, and the Apple II cannot read PC 720K or 1.44MB disk
>> formats without the right hardware.
>
>I know Macintosh computers can read 720K PC disks, but is the governed
>by the fact they have a SuperDrive?  I guess what it really boils down
>to is whether the computer can govern the variable speed of the drive.

Even the Macintosh can't read 720K PC disks with an 800K drive.  The
Apple File Exchange program could not read MS-DOS disks until Macs had
SuperDrives.

The easiest way to transfer with a floppy is to get a high density
floppy drive and controller (BlueDisk or SuperDrive) on the IIe and
format 1.44MB MFM ProDOS disks.  Save the files on them and read them
on the PC with the ProCopy program.  Mitchell Spector has offered to
upload or post ProCopy if there is enough interest.


>> There is no software called "Apple II File Exchange".  Might you be
>> thinking of the old Macintosh application (System 6.x through 7.1)
>> called "Apple File Exchange"?
>
>I know of Apple File Exchange, but there is a program called Apple II
>File Exchange.  Check out
>
>ftp://ftp.wustl.edu/usenet/comp.binaries.apple2/Util/as2fx.6.docs
>
>I have been away from the Apple II arena to immediately know if any
>major improvements in Apple II software have occurred.

A2FX (Apple II File Exchange) reads Macintosh HFS floppies only.

With MacOpener or something similar for the PC to write HFS disks,
you can transfer from the PC to the IIe using A2FX.  However, this
transfer would be one way since A2FX can't _write_ to HFS disks.

If you want to do this, you will need a high density controller and
drive (BlueDisk or SuperDrive), since only the 1.44MB format is low
level encoded in MFM.

Why bother, though?  If you have a high density floppy drive, just
format the disks in ProDOS and use ProCopy on the PC side to access
the files!  ProCopy can read files right off of ProDOS 1.44MB disks,
which are MFM formatted (only 800K and 5.25" floppies on Apple
computers are GCR).


>> Hm.  Assuming you connected a CD-ROM drive to the Apple II (no problem
>> with the RamFast, possibly limited choice of CD-ROM drive models with an
>> Apple SCSI card), there may be a problem accessing ISO-9660 disks from
>> ProDOS-8.  It would require specially written software.
>
>I guess I didn't portray my intents correctly.  I would be using my PC
>to transfer any information back to my Apple II, however, if the Apple HSS
>and the RAMFast treat SCSI devices as SCSI devices without singling out
>which are hard drives, I could use my Plextor 12X SCSI with the Apple II
>and write some special software that would interpret the MS-DOS ISO-9660
>format.  I wonder, though, how I would be able to access blocks higher
>than the 32MB limit?!  Apparently my current SCSI controller [in my Apple]
>can, on the hardware level, access higher than 32MB.

I think that only the Apple II High Speed SCSI and the RamFAST can
do this.  And they _can_ do this on the hardware level.  On an Apple
IIGS with the GS/OS operating system, you can install the High Sierra/
ISO-9660 FST (filesystem translator) and any ISO-9660 CD-ROM drive
placed in a CD-ROM drive on the SCSI chain will appear on the GS Finder
looking just like a volume under the ProDOS filesystem.  Such a disc
is _not_ limited to just 32MB.

The problem on a IIe is that ProDOS 8 _is_ the filesystem.  The GS
can do what it does because GS/OS treats ProDOS as just another
filesystem accessed through an FST.  Therefore, with an HFS FST, it
can deal with Macintosh volumes.  With an MS-DOS FST, it can deal
with PC floppies.  With an AppleShare FST, it can see AppleShare drives.
With an High Sierra FST, it can see CD-ROM discs.  You even need a
ProDOS FST to access ProDOS volumes or else GS/OS will stop in mid
boot.

>> You could get an Apple II Workstation Card (LocalTalk card for the Apple
>> II) and connect through an AppleTalk network.
>
>My only concern would be software on the Apple II that would support this
>device.  Did Apple ship the Workstation card with software for accessing
>file shares?
>
>Have you seen any transceievers that will interpret between LocalTalk and
>Ethernet?

Someone has written LocalTalk software for the PC in the linux (UNIX
variant) operating system.  It is call Nettatalk, I believe.  All you
need to do is sit a transceiver design for the Macintosh that interprets
between LocalTalk and Ethernet between the IIe and the Apple IIe with
Workstation card.  The standard IIe software for the Workstation card
will let you share files just fine with the PC acting as server.

-Scott G.