Re: Apple ///?

[Smarter%than%Spam@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Tilghman Lesher)]

In article <bjbear-ya023680003003970654230001@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, 
B.J. Major & Dennis J. Gorin (bjbear@ibm.net) wrote:
: (Tilghman Lesher) wrote:

: > B.J. Major (bjbear@ibm.net) wrote:
: > : In reply to:
: > 
[snipped]
: > : > 3rd replacement had worked out. Ironically though, now that Apple has
: > : > finally killed off the Apple II, it doesn't look like the company will
: > : > have any future. :)
: > 
: > : That last sentence "now that Apple has finally killed off the
: > : Apple //"; I think you need to revisit history.  The decision
: > : to no longer support production of future Apple // models was
: > : made some years ago, although there is some software support
: > : for Apple // still on Apple's FTP sites. 
: > 
: > The software includes the "current" system software, 6.0.1,
: > HyperCard IIGS, and a few things for allowing II's to boot off
: > a Mac Appleshare fileserver, NONE of which have been revised in
: > several years.  "Some software support" is stretching the
: > definition of "software support" quite a bit.

: From where I sit, Apple Computer has no obligation whatsoever
: to support a discontinued line, just as any other company that
: discontinues models of anything has an obligation to support what
: they don't make anymore.  So be grateful those things are there--
: especially if you JUST GOT a //gs as I did, and had no system
: software or anything else for it.  What is at Apple's FTP site at
: least got me up and running and I took it from there.

Let's just suppose that I stick a binary of a program which runs on
a 4004 on my web site.  Oooooh.  Guess that makes me have "some software
support" for the 4004 on my web site, right?  Or even a binary which runs
on an Apple I.  Wow!  I'm now an active supporter of the Apple I, right?

No, they have no obligation to stick this on their web site, and yes, it's
nice to see that it's there.  However, this does not constitute "some
software support."  This constitutes a lame attempt to look like they
still give a damn.  Which I'm having a hard time buying.

: > 
: > : And the decision to "kill off the Apple //" has nothing
: > : to do with the present state of affairs at Apple Computer.
: > : Their present problems are caused by these things:
: > 
: > : 1.  Insufficient and weak advertising--especially television.
: > 
: > During the Apple ][ years, Apple showed exactly ONE (1) television ad
: > per year.  This is likely not the problem.

: It is a different world now.  Companies live and die by
: advertising.  Last night during a one-hour prime time tv
: show, I saw three ads for IBM and their computers.  Microsoft
: is hammering away at the public with "Where do you want to go
: today?".  If Apple does not get in an aggressive position,
: the public will believe the hype about the company not being
: significant anymore and think it doesn't even exist.

And I suppose if they stuck with the Apple II and supported it actively,
they would still have this problem?  During the 80s, most schools were
Apple II-based, at least in the classrooms with the kids.  When the Apple
II was axed, a lot of schools switched over to PC clones.

: > 
: > : 2.  Waiting much too long to license the Mac OS & hardware to
: > : Mac clone makers.
: > 
: > This wasn't a problem for the Apple II; in fact, Apple sued clone makers.

: This is a moot point.  When you're the only game in town
: you can charge anything you want and get away with it
: because the public needs it.  IBM clones killed off this
: whole idea forever.

IBM clones were in direct competition with the Apple II.

: > 
: > : 3.  Until recently, expensively high prices for anything
: > : with the Apple name on it.
: > 
: > This wasn't a problem for the Apple II, despite the fact that the Apple
: > II's were also expensive.

: Same answer as above #2.

Ditto.  :-)

: > 
: > : 4.  Bad management and bad CEOs (present one excluded) for the
: > : last several
: > : years--enough to do it permanent damage from which it may not recover.
: > 
: > Apple ALWAYS has had bad management.  Apple ///.  Lisa.  Mac part 1.

Sculley was at the helm when they killed the Apple II.  I think he's one
of the "bad CEOs" which you mentioned above.

: > : I don't happen to agree with Apple's decision to axe
: > : the // line (especially the //gs), but the Macintosh
: > : was gaining strong momentum and much more visible and
: > : in use as a standard platform than what we see now. 
: > : To blame Apple's present problems on the decision to
: > : axe the // line is shortsighted at the least.
: > 
: > No, accurate.  And it would be LONGsighted, anyway.

: Let's say for argument's sake that the 8-bit // line was
: discontinued when they did, but they left open further
: development of the //gs.  Just how long do you think this
: could have gone on?  Computers are now pushing 64 bit CPUs
: and such; a machine with a dual 8/16 bit CPU as the //gs
: has would not have lasted much longer.  It would have had
: to eventually get totally revised, rebuilt, new CPU to
: replace the old, new OS, etc. etc.  So what would be left
: of what you now know as the //gs?  Not much.

Hmmmm.  I believe "Lemonade Stand", as well as all those other educational
programs would still run native, and the schools would still be using them.

The hardware may change, but the software lives on.

For example, how long do you think Microsoft would stay in the market, if
they suddenly announced that they were no longer going to support the x86
architecture; instead, they were going to produce software exclusively
for a completely new machine which they call the "MicroSloth"? 

And I suppose you're thinking, "Microsoft would never do that; that's
completely boneheaded."  Well, what do you think happened at Apple?

: > Tell me, precisely, what is the current vision of Apple?  I think it's
: > to remain alive for the next three years, which, imho, is NOT a vision
: > likely to buoy the company for any long-term sense of time.
: > 
: > And a stockholder (like me) is supposed to be bullish.  If I'm bullish,
: > I'd hate to know what a bear thinks.

: To ask the current vision of Apple you'll have to ask
: Apple.  If you are so down on the company, I can't
: understand why you are a stockholder to begin with.
: IMHO, Apple needs support right now and people like
: yourself aren't willing to provide it.

I'm providing support for them, the way they're providing
support for the II line -- token support -- nothing more,
nothing less.

I'm a stockholder, because I haven't found a good time to sell
off without taking a huge loss.

I read the annual report for the past two years.  There is no
product vision at Apple.  The only vision they have is a
"corporate" vision -- "Stayin' Alive!  Stayin' Alive! Ooh, ooh, 
ooh, ooh, stayin' ali- i- i- i- ive!", which, imho, again, is 
NOT a good vision for a technology company...

--
__ __|_) |       |                    
   |   | |  _` |   \   ` \   _` |   \ 
  _|  _|_|\__, |_| _|_|_|_|\__,_|_| _|
          ____/