Re: CD of all Wisdom of Nathan Mates

[jeffr@bnr.ca (Jeffrey Robertson)]

OK, I'm going to reply to both Sam's and Turley's posts at
once, to save time.

I wrote:

>Jeffrey Robertson (jeffr@bnr.ca) wrote:
>
>: OK, Sam.  Pariah test:
>
>: What single useful thing has Turley contributed to the csa2 community?
>: What have *you* contributed?
>: I haven't seen you do anything but flame, Sam.  So why are you here?

Sam's reply:

In article <52n64r$ao7@crl10.crl.com>, Sam Ismail <dastar@crl.com> wrote:
>
>What have *you* contributed?  Why are YOU here?  What puts you on a level
>to question my motives and judgements?  In other words, get off your
>head-trip.

I've been using Apple IIs since the early 1980s.  I now own a IIgs, but
don't do a lot with it... mostly just dialin to work with it.  I still
use Appleworks and play a few games, but I no longer try to develop
software for it.  I wrote a bit the past, but the general low level of
the development environments discourages me.

I write software for a living, and I'm used to a lot better environment.
(Bug-free compilers are a nice idea!)  Furthermore, I can't be bothered
to learn the intricacies of the Toolbox, so most of what I'd write
wouldn't be of interest to others.

So why am I here?  To get questions answered!  As far as A2 goes these
days, I'm a user.  I ask questions; experts answer them.

Why do I question you?  Well, all I've ever seen you do is flame.
Correction: You have one post claiming you want to help people,
and that you're a nice friendly guy.  The rebuttal to that post
was compelling.

I'm not on a "head-trip".  I'm sick of people who flame without ever
offering anything else.  Nathan Mates at least offers useful software
and information.

>Nathan is a goody-two-shoes jackass and anyone who defends him is the same
>for not realizing what a blight he is.

Yeah, whatever.  Obviously, you don't like anyone who disagrees with you.

>As for "my contributions", I design communications networks for a living.
>I don't have time for silly childs play like Apple ][ development.  I've
>grown beyond it, thank you very much.

Sounds like me, except I'm not quite so snotty and condescending about it.
If A2 is so beneath you, why are you here?

> If you want to know the full scoop
>on my "contribution", e-mail me and I'll give you my work phone number.
>Then you can call me in person and I'll tell you whatever you want to know
>about me.

I'll judge you as I judge everyone else on USENET: By what they say on
USENET.  Your contribution so far has been flames.

>What are your contributions, Jeff?

See above.


Then Turley added:

In article <52nnba$r2s@news.wco.com>,
Charles T. Turley <cturley@wco.com> wrote:
>I'll tell you what Jeffrey Robertson's contributions are - (at least 
>with respect to the Apple II newsgroups - anyway) he's the lurking, 
>prying, professional investigator and 'Official Debunker' of all things 
>related to me, as well as the undisputed 'Grand Software Evaluator - 
>Critic and Lord Judge' for all aspects of anything remotely related to 
>or released from anybody on the Apple II platform!  

This is so laughable, that it is hardly worth replying to.  However,
since it is sometimes amusing to try and figure out the tortured logic
in Turley's posts, I'll try:

lurking - I read when I can, and I post only when I have something
          worth saying.  Debunking Turley is generally "worth it".

prying professional investigator - must be referring to some private
email I've had with Turley, in which I used DejaNews to show him
posts where he said things he later denied saying.

"Official Debunker" - A title just conferred by Turley.  I think it
belongs more to Nathan, but I'll do my part.

"GSE-CLJ" - Uhhhh... whatever.  Another title from Turley.  Odd
that he doesn't contest it...


>He's also been known to present himself as the ultimate endorser of the 
>dozen or so 'Kights of the Round Table' [...]

I've offered my opinion on two main subjects:  Charles Turley as a
Dangerous Fraud Who Should Keep His Promises To Stay Away From
CSA2, and Software Piracy Versus Software Archiving (ie, the
Asimov debate).

[As far as the latter goes, I think people on both sides appreciated
some of the "framing definitions" I offered.  Certainly no one told
me to go away.]

I endorse the people who want Turley to go away (and who want Sam
to shut up) because I think they're right.  I've offered justification
for that opinion.  Not surprisingly, we disagree.  The point of this
post is to try and clear up the questions Sam asked (and the nonsense
that Turley wrote).

>Oh, yes, I almost forgot to add he also works on advanced materials 
>research of some sort for communications related technology.  I wonder 
>if he every wrote or help contributed any type of software to the Apple 
>II community, during all of his worthy efforts and research?

Not quite.  I do work in telecommunications software, but no fancy
materials, unless you count Cesium Clocks.  My software handles 
synchronization of nodes in a long distance phone network.

The only piece of Apple software I ever considered releasing was
a text-based map editor for Ultima III.  (Or was it IV?)  I didn't
bother because once I got on the internet, I found a much better
graphical one.  I did most of my A2 work back in high school,
before I was ever on the 'net.  Accidents of history, and all that.

I've been able to answer a few questions on csa2, but mostly I just
lurk.  It is only when a worthwhile subject of debate comes up
that I get involved, and then only briefly.


This reply is too long already.  Reply as you please; I doubt
I'll followup again.
-- 
-------------------------------------+----------------+-----------------
Jeffrey Robertson                    |  jeffr@bnr.ca  |      BNR, Ottawa
"I speak for myself, not BNR" - Me   +----------------+       (Meriline)
"Verbing weirds language" - Calvin                      OC-48 FiberWorld