I don't appreciate legal threats from 1WSW.

[toddpw@whip.ugcs.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel)]

Last thursday night, as Dr. Tom was supposedly leaving the net for good,
I received a fair amount of email from him -- ending in a promise that he
is filing for a restraining order on me, to be followed by a civil lawsuit.

I'm through offering opinions on this. All I will add are facts. If you are
still undecided about Dr. Tom, read on, and draw your own conclusions.

What follows is the complete text of both messages, reformatted to remain
within 80 column limits but with no other changes to the content. Lines
which were written by me but were not explicitly quoted as such are
indicated by "T>" instead of ">". Unquoted lines are new text.

> Forwarded message:
> >From gbmaidsf@wco.com  Wed Aug  9 08:14:46 1995
> Message-Id: <v01510100ac4e7ae5ace8@[199.4.109.139]>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Length: 19325
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 08:17:26 -0700
> To: toddpw@wrath.ugcs.caltech.edu
> From: gbmaidsf@wco.com (gbmaidsf@wco.com)
> 
> to:toddpw@wrath.ugcs.caltech.edu
> from: gbmaidsf@wco.com
> 
> 8/9/95
> 
> Dear Todd:
> 
> There are a great many matters we must discuss and clear up promptly. To
> clarify my comments and my request to you, please review all of them as
> marked with an *.
> 
> Your collective postings to c.s.a2 leave me no alternative, other than to
> write this lengthy and serious request to you now!  Had you not made such
> comments, I wouldn't have to be wasting mine and your valuable time with
> these matters. You certainly have my full premission to release this email
> from me to you, to the general public, if you so wish!  Awaiting your prompt
> reply, I remain:
> 
> Sincerely,
>  Charles T. Turley, Ph.D.
> Exec. Coordinator - 1WSW
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
T> I boast of NOTHING that has not been distributed at some point. I stopped
T> sending out LHG's years ago, but many people have it. Every other program
T> or patch I have released (ZipTalk, ZipFix, AUFSInit, A.H.H.H.SYSTEM, the
T> DiskCopy hack, etc.) was put on the caltech FTP site by me personally. None
T> were big-ticket programs, but all were original work done by me that I and
T> others found useful. I have never claimed they were more than that.
T> 
T> Not bad for a shot in the dark though.
> 
> * I never implied that you boast of NOTHING. I was simply interested to
> know what programs, for the IIGS you have released. Thanks for the outline!
> I'm sure they are all very good programs, but I have no personal interest
> in any of them.

Your previous email asked what we had done recently for the IIgs, other than
boasting of supposedly great software that had yet to be released. Of course
we don't have a copy of that article available on the news server at this
point, but it's in the archives somewhere if one really wants to hunt for it.

On August 1st I received an email from you requesting LHG (and in the proper
form that I originally asked for way back in the beginning). I did not
respond because I stopped responding to all LHG requests two years ago,
when the frequency of requests dropped below one per month.

> With respect to LHG, I don't have a copy of it, never have seen it publicly
> available on any A2 ftp sites or any of the online services. As you are (I
> understand),the sysop on A2 Caltech and responsible for public releases on
> Genie A2 also, I would have thought you might have at least made the LHG
> program available for the public to have and use.

I am no longer sysop of A2 Caltech, that's Dan Zimmerman. /pub/apple2/.README
began listing his name back in 1993 when I handed over control of the FTP site
to him.

I am library sysop of GEnie A2Pro (not A2, that's Tim Tobin). There was a
GEnie release of LHG at one point and it should still be in A2's library.

> Perhaps it's time you reconsidered the merit of LHG and release it! I'm
> sure many others that don't have it, might enjoy having it for their use
> with their IIGS. Now I realize your efforts with Greene Software, compiling
> and such, is a

When I get a Second Sight card, LHG will happen. What I can't guarantee is
when I'll get the SS board. At work we're growing faster than we can hire
right now.

> rewarding career and takes a great deal of your time, as does your online
> efforts and responsibilities at Caltech, Usenet and on Genie.  As these
> positions hold you to both respectible and responsible actions, I'm
> surprised to find your public postings concerning me and 1WSW; rude,
> biased, unsupported, slanderous, childish and less than professional,
> as do many others also.

I'll admit to some snide comments, but as far as I'm concerned the burden
of evidence is largely yours. My statements can be verified independently
by anyone who is willing to do the research. I don't understand why I have
to contact you directly to even begin verifying your claims.

T> Hey, I'm not _that_ rude. Everyone's opinion means something -- we're in
T> agreement on that. However past experience advises me to be quite skeptical
T> of whether or not your opinions are actually correct.
> 
> * Again, I'll point out, IMHO, you are very rude, careless and
> un-professional with respect to what you post, without any basis of facts
> to backup any of your statements, concerning me or the 1WSW group.
> 
> You should be more careful with respect to whom you listen to, concerning
> hearsay and advise from others, about people you do not know, alledged
> facts and
> information included! I'm glad to see we do agree on something. As I do
> respect everybody and their personal opinion, based on the hearsay, you've
> been told from many others, you have every right to be skeptical of whether
> or not my opinions are actually correct. If I'd been told what you and so
> many others have been told about me, without asking me my side of the story,
> I doubt it all too!
> 
> Concerning my opinions, they are correct to me, as are yours to you! I do
> not publicly humiliate you or your efforts for the IIGS, regardless of how
> I may personally feel about you or your efforts.  Please show me the same
> respect.  People on Usenet, can draw their own conclusions.  They don't
> need your guidance.

Damn right. They are free to ignore me just as they are free to ignore you
or anyone else.

> As other IIGS and Apple II users have pointed out to me, concerning your
> postings about me and 1WSW, You are not the c.s.a2 moral patrol officer,
> nor are you entitled to act as such, which is exactly what you appear to be
> doing, IMHO.
> Also, you are acting like a simple JERK, even a Facist, on c.s.a2, as some
> have also mentioned to me, in their email and telephone conversations.

I would humbly request that everyone who genuinely feels this way post
something so I can't falsely claim I asked for email and received nothing.

I care more about the truth than people's opinions of me. If Dr. Tom keeps
posting misinformation, I will keep debunking it. If he continues to insist
that I don't know what the hell I am talking about, I will not continue to
treat him with the respect that I initially give to everyone I disagree with.

> While on the subject of emails, I'll make it crystal clear to you, and
> everybody else, you might wish to pass the information on to. Any
> additions I made to any publicly posted emails between myself and
> Mitch Spector, were additions to my reply to him, and were simply made,
> to clarify any details or matters, that I may not have originally related
> to him. Absolutely nothing that he emailed to me, not the contents or any
> of his original statements were altered or changed in any manner
> what-so-ever. His comments, concerning Joe Kohn, Burgerbill, Ian Schmidt
> and Richard Wifall, were accurate and intact, word for word.  I don't care
> if you believe me or not. Mitch oviously, didn't want that information made
> public and has done a wonderful job of covering his ass and his original
> statements to me, by denying them in total.
>
> >The following statement -> copied from above "I have yet to see a
> >legitimate 1WSW release." is a statement that must either be factually
> >backed up, (without
> >a reasonable doubt), with credientialed professional evidence, that will
> >hold up in a court of law, A.S.A.P., in vivid detail, with names, dates...
> 
> * After consulting with my attorney, he ask me to politely request that
> you make a public retraction concerning this issue and statement, A.S.A.P.
> Whatever you elect to state publicly concerning me, as an individual, is
> entirely a different issue. The 1WSW team members are a collective group
> of legitimate programmers and all of their programs are legitimate. Your
> incinuations declare them all to be other than legitimate software.  This
> is not acceptable and must be retracted, to avoid legal action, promptly!

I would like to find out more about 1WSW's status as a corporate entity and
its tax status. Surely this is information you can post in public. I would
also like to see a complete roster of 1WSW members, say on the WWW site.

> The 1WSW group, all team members, associates and friends, have released
> nothing but legitimate software programs for the Apple 2 and IIGS.  I
> strongly urge you to carefully and closely review everything contained
> within the 1WSW folder on GRIND, promptly. Then evaluate them all and
> make your formal and public retraction on the c.s.a2 group via your
> personal posting, A.S.A.P.

I have begun examining the contents of GRIND, but there's a lot there and
I'm not exactly rolling in free time these days. The time I spend on usenet
normally consumes basically all of my leisure hours during the week already.

> Had you reviewed the contents of them all, when I uploaded them to Caltech
> also, rather than promptly having deleted them, because they were uploaded
> by me, you would have already been able to determine their legal status!
> I'm amazed to see that many of my uploads to Caltech, are still available.
> I guess, the fact that I never bothered to attach my name to many of them,
> is probably the only reason you haven't deleted them from Caltech A2 ftp,
> YET!  And, why is NTGS v2.0 still available on the Caltech A2, ftp site.
> Didn't Ian Schmidt advise you to remove it also? It does has my name on it!
> After all, you must protect the A2 users of Caltech from the evil Dr. Tom's
> sector edited hacks and stuff!

My successor at the Caltech FTP site has total control of it and answers
directly to the Caltech undergraduate computing department. He runs the
site using his own judgement and with absolutely no interference from me.

> I'm not a programmer, never claimed to be a programmer and have not released
> anything that I've ever personally coded.  I'm the Exec. Coordinator for
> the 1WSW team.  I did design the structure and functional updates for the
> rewrite of Noise Tracker GS v1.2, 1.3, 1.4 and the complete rewrite of v2.0.
> Dave Swanson did all the NTGS update coding and the rewrite for the v2.0
> GS/OS application, with assistance from several other past 1WSW team members.
> I'd like to see you tell me that NTGS v2.0 is a sector edit of mine!
> 
> 
> In fact, I'd like you to show me conclusive evidence, that I've ever sector
> edited anything! You can't, because I never have!  Anything ever released
> on the Net, that might have been sector edited with my name on it, was not
> done by me, nor was it made available from me.

I went searching for the old VAMPS disks on GRIND. I didn't find them,
because you've re-released them all with NTGS v2.0. I would like to
examine them if they are still available for download.

I also couldn't find FREEOS; perhaps I missed it in the list.
I'd like to examine this as well.

> You and so many others keep pushing the false assumptions, without any
> facts to base such assumptions on, that I'm responsible for the release
> to the Internet of the Platinum Paint hack (OmniPaint), the beta of
> Spectrum, which had the name 'Dr. Tom' on it and Diversi-tune, plus many
> others, I've heard about them all.  Rest assured, I never had anything
> to do with their being made available or uploaded to the Internet.
> 
> I received confirmation about the Spectrum beta having been uploaded to the
> NET from; Earl, Pres of SHS, who sent it to me via regular surface mail,
> for 1WSW group beta testing, with the name Dr. Tom embedded in the program,
> personally by him.  The first day it was uploaded to the Net, he called me,
> to advise me about it, asked me if I had any knowledge of it, having been
> made available on the NET and I replied, that was the first I knew about it.
> He then advised me that a confidential informer from Apple Computer had
> advised them (SHS) of the upload and had traced it to have been done by
> (or at least in the name of) Ian Schmidt.
> 
> The very same day, later that afternoon, I received a voice call from Joe
> Gleason of Quality Computers, asking me if I had anything to do with the
> distribution, upload and release to the Internet, of a hacked version of
> Platinum Paint, (OmniPaint, with my name on it).  I assured Joe, until his
> call, I was totally unaware of such being uploaded to the NET and that I
> would never have done such an absurd and illegal act against the program,
> its author Matt or Quality Computers.
> 
> I advised Joe Gleason of the other incident concerning the Spectrum beta
> upload and the call about it from Earl at SHS.  I asked Joe Gleason for
> his assistance in locating the person who did the upload. He agreed to
> work on an investigation of the matters with SHS, the FBI and The Internet
> Society. We all actively tried to trace who did it, obtain the evidence,
> the names and decided, in the best interest of the programs, the persons
> that did it and entire A2 world, not to make the evidence or names
> available to the public, at that time.  You can confirm these matters with
> any of the above, if you have any doubts!

Ah, thanks for providing some independent references for a change. I don't
see any reason to argue about this one any further.

T> The only 1WSW releases I have _seen_ were the first few VAMPS disks. I say
T> they were not legitimate because they falsely claim to be much more than
T> they really are.
> 
> * You have the right to your personal opinions concerning all of the VAMPS,
> NTV, MegaMOD and OmniTracker releases by me. If you have any of them with
> false claims, and you can prove that they are indeed false claims, with
> conclusive evidence, from audio professionals, (other than Ian Schmidt,
> whom I do not consider to be an audio professional, in the least), then
> post that evidence, from those audio professionals, with their names and
> their opinions.

I will remain skeptical until you post a few of _your_ audio professionals
so I can check with them. Surely one of them won't mind a few minutes on the
phone.

> Other wise, I expect a formal and public retraction to this statement also,
> A.S.A.P. I've made no false claims concerning any VAMPS releases, that I'm
> aware of.  If you feel that I have, please detail these "False Claims",
> with a public posting and an outline of their falseness!
> 
> God knows, I'm no more perfect than the next person. Perhaps, I may have
> said something within the VAMPS documentations that was misconstruded in
> content, by you and others. Semantics does have its pitfalls you know! If
> you can point out exactly what you are talking about, with respect to these
> false claims, I'll be happy to clarify and discuss anything contained in
> the documentations with you, in detail!

I question your whole premise of "psychoacoustic 3-D sound". I think there
should be academic papers describing research on it. I want to see them.

T> Based on what I heard from people (like Ian Schmidt) whose technical
T> ability you yourself don't question, I did not bother to download any
T> other 1WSW releases, therefore I have not seen them.
> 
> * You really shouldn't base your information on what you've heard from
> Ian Schmidt. Few others do!  I do not consider Ian Schmidt to have any
> outstanding technical abilities and I do indeed, question his technical
> audio abilities, knowledge and talents. He's released three IIGS programs;
> AudioZap, MODZap and Modifier, which I've used, but I don't consider any
> of the three to show any form of outstanding technical ability. They are
> all just as unstable and crash my ROM 01 and ROM 03 IIGS', just as often
> as our very own (far-from-prefect) effort -> NTGS v2.0.
> 
> Certainly the documentation, he released with MODZap, relating to me as
> Chuckie T, asshole extrodinaire, with his other rude and childish comments,
> concerning 1WSW, the comments about Tim Meekins, etc. and his other antics
> like; the unauthorized 24 hour hack and release of NTGS v1.1,  his boasting
> about the "Holy Grail GS music program" (yet-to-be-released) ShockWave/s3m
> player/editor, MODZap v1.0, MIDIZap, ResZap and the AudioZap v2.0 update,
> you'll get, by paying your AudioZap shareware fee to him, (I mailed my
> shareware fee of $20 to him over two years ago and still have never
> received any AudioZap v2.0), and his publicly declaring himself per his
> last posting to c.s.a2 as the: " Self-proclaimed GS sound pimp" these all
> prove to me how totally lame, un-professional and politically incorrect he
> is, with respect to any public response or respect.
> 
> Sure, Ian has his own following and don't we all! But, I'm certainly not
> one of them! I respect some of his programming efforts and that's all I
> respect.  Ian has even admitted to me, that he actually liked some of my
> VAMPS.  So there you have it, beleive it or not!
> 
T> Yes, that is an English loophole of sorts, and I did word it that way on
T> purpose. If there are 1WSW releases you know are perfect and without flaw,
T> please name one and I'll get it from GRIND and post my revised opinion on
T> c.s.a2 after examining it.
> 
> * Yes, loopholes and semantics indeed!  Nothing released by anybody is
> perfect and without flaw.  But, stating that  "I have yet to see a
> >legitimate 1WSW release." is a statement that must either be factually
> >backed up, (without
> >a reasonable doubt), with credientialed professional evidence, that will
> >hold up in a court of law, A.S.A.P., in vivid detail, with names, dates
> or a retraction must be made, to the effect that you made an error with
> such comments, as posted. That's all I'm asking you to do, Todd!
> Nothing else, need be said.

My statement was true at the time. I had yet to see a legitimate 1WSW release.
All you can sue me over is the implication that I'd seen all of them and thus
none of them are legitimate, but as everyone here knows, I freely admitted
that I had only actually seen a few 1WSW releases: the original first VAMPS
disks. If you've really got a lawyer who thinks you have a case, then I would
like to know who your lawyer is.

T> If, however, you really want to take me to court, I suggest you start with
T> my recent statement that you have been hallucinating, which I'll admit is
T> the only conclusion I can make after reading your claims. I'll retract
T> that one publically if you really want me to. The same post pointed out
T> another ridiculous technical claim of yours (what the hell is a 'virtual
T> memory op-code' ?), which you should probably explain here first so I can
T> debunk it now and save us both the trouble.
> 
> * No, I really don't want to take you to court. However, again, your making
> such a statement in public, concerning my mental instability and concluding
> that I'm hallucinating, was totally uncalled for. Yes, I want you to retract
> that statement as publicly posted also, A.S.A.P.  You want to know (what the
> hell is 'virtual memory opcode?).  Well, ask William Mensch, he wrote it.
> All I know about it is that it involves a little know 65816 opcode (ABORT),
> implemented by Olivier Goguel, in his original JukeBox basic program, which
> he personally furnished to me, per my request to him, as his very last
> official basic program effort for the IIGS.  Tim Meekins has also recently
> implemented it, under GS/OS with his beta releases of ImageQuant. So, there
> you have it. My collective knowledge of virtual memory opcode. Please debunk
> it.  ImageQuant is a program, I might add, I find very useful with displaying
> and converting color gifs and many other graphic formats, and available to
> the public as freeware, via GRIND, unlike your LHG, which I've yet to find,
> much less have the privedge of using. But, hey, if you don't want to release
> it to the public, that's your business!

ABORT is not an opcode. It is an input signal to the 65816 which was intended
to be used for memory protection and/or virtual memory hardware, none of which
was ever sold for the IIgs. (Jawaid was working on something at one point for
GNO, but I'm not sure what the final status of that was.) Looking at the IIgs
Hardware Reference Manual, 65816 data sheet and IIgs schematic, it is easy to
determine that extra hardware was required in either the 65816 socket (an
accelerator, say) or in the memory expansion slot. You can check with the
manufacturers of all such IIgs hardware (who are still in business) that
their products do not support virtual memory via the ABORT input. You can
check the 65816 data sheet to verify that there is no instruction called
ABORT; besides, all 65816 instruction names are three letters long.

Dr. Tom, your information about ABORT is wrong. Period. Whoever told you
about it was pulling your leg.

Consider it debunked. You're welcome.

T> I have been devoting my time to the propagation of correct (as much as I am
T> able) and authoritative information on c.s.a2 since I first came on the net
T> in 1989. All the net traffic I have seen from 1WSW is consistent with the
T> conclusion that you have convinced yourself of many things which are simply
T> not true, and then convinced other IIgs owners that they were true. I would
T> be neglecting my chosen duty on c.s.a2 by letting posts containing such
T> misinformation go unchallenged.
> 
> * Concerning your above statements, I also have been devoting my time to the
> propagation of correct (as much as I am able and to the best of my
> knowledge) and authoratiative information, where and as I'm able to present
> it. You've got me beat by 4 years with respect to access to the Net.
> Please allow me to make it clear to you Todd.  (I can just about hear you
> now saying -> YEAH RIGHT DR. TOM)
> 
> I am not 1WSW. I am Charles T. (Dr. Tom) Turley.  I am the Exec. Coordinator
> and co-founder of 1WSW. 1WSW is a collective group of talented, individuals
> and devoted programmers, who have contributed some wonderful software
> programs to both the Apple 2 and IIGS, over the years. I've attempted to
> help coordinate their collective efforts and talents together. I've never
> asked for or demanded any money, praise or anything else for any of my
> efforts. (excluding the early VAMPS/NTV disks, which were sharewares) I've
> poored all of my time and energy into everything I've done with the 1WSW
> group. I've spent a lot of my own money to keep things going, for a long
> time now. postage, money given to the programmers and team members, long
> distant and international phone calls, Internet server provider fees, etc.
> Perhaps, I have convinced myself and others regarding conclusions which
> are simply not true.
> 
> I respectfully ask you to outline them all in factual details. If I can't
> argue that they are true and correct, I will be only to happy to publicly
> admit my errors. You state that: you would be neglecting your chosen duty
> on c.s.a2 by letting posts containing such misinformation to go unchallenged.
> Well then, relate your chosen duty directly to me, personally for a change
> and clarify all of this misinformation. Enlighten me please. I eagarly await
> your detailed and documented reply, so that I can rectify my many alledged
> errors of ignorance and gross misinformation to everybody, publicly.

Be glad to, in the future. I think we've beaten most of the current issues
to death, so I'm willing to let them rest if you are.

T> Why does no one who regularly posts authoritative answers here on c.s.a2
T> rise to defend you? Would you like to try your hand at proving (without a
T> reasonable doubt, that will hold up in a court of law, etc.) that we're in
T> conspiracy with each other to tarnish your good name? Okay, so are you then
T> prepared to sue _all_of us? Or just me & Peter, who happened to be fed up
T> enough to challenge you this time. We're not alone, you'll notice.
> 
> * To address the above questions; (A) Nobody rises to my defense, because
> they don't want to get involved in the public view. At least that's my
> conclusions with respect to many who have privately discussed all these
> matters with me in the past. (B) No, I don't consider that you are all
> involved in a conspiracy with each other against me, to tarnish my good
> name. I've already outlined, in clear terms, just who was involved in the
> conspiracy, as have many others that know who they are. You know, as well
> I as, that I have no good name to tarnish.  I really don't know what to
> make of either you, Peter, or the other dozen or so, ragging/nit pickers
> posting to c.s.a2 at this point, nor frankly do I even care any more!
> No you are not alone, yet!  Perhaps some day you might be. Then you'll
> understand what being alone really is!

I understand very well what being alone really is. I didn't acquire my
imperviousness to social rejection by magic.

> I have plenty more to say to you, concerning your other postings.  But,
> I'll leave that for tomorrow, to give you time to think about and digest
> the content of this email.
> 
> -END OF FILE-
>
> Forwarded message:
> >From gbmaidsf@wco.com  Wed Aug  9 09:30:03 1995
> Message-Id: <v01510100ac4e90eef2c2@[199.4.109.138]>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Length: 2444
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 09:32:41 -0700
> To: toddpw@gluttony.ugcs.caltech.edu
> From: gbmaidsf@wco.com (gbmaidsf@wco.com)
> Subject: Legal action in progress
> Cc: World
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Mr. Whitesel:
> 
> IMHO, and to put it bluntly, you are indeed, a virtual gluttony ass-hole of
> the grandest order. These public postings and comments below of yours
> concerning me, not only put you wide opened for a civil law suit, which I
> intend to now pursue,
> individually, against you without delay, unless a full retraction is issued
> by you at once, but also opens you to ridicule by the entire world, for
> propounding your exalted ignorance.
> 
> At this point, if my demand for a full retraction by you is not honored
> promptly, as soon as I've located your physical residence, legal service
> and action will be taken. I have applied today, for a restraining order, to
> prevent you from any such additional outragous and slanderous postings to
> public.
> 
> Reading below, what you've done, is not only a vulgar display of slander
> and bias ignorance, but a representation to the entire world, of just how
> low and to what degrees you will drop, to prove your facist nature. I
> demand a prompt and full retraction to the statements you've posted below.
> I need say no more.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Charles T. Turley
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> As posted to public from: toddpw@gluttony.ugcs.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel)
> 
> 
> You must be on drugs, because you only imagined them all. I checked out your
> first VAMPS disk pretty thoroughly when I was deciding whether to put it on
> the caltech FTP site, and it was obvious from the doc file and the musics
> that all you did was double up the tracks and invent a bullshit explanation
> for it. I've done remixes like that myself and I call them stereo remixes
> because that's all they are.
> 
> 
> Gee, maybe your instructions didn't make it onto the first VAMPS disk,
> because I sure didn't see anything that told me I needed to do something
> unusual to evaluate the music. You went on & on about how the GS already
> has the needed capabilities built in. Not without a joint or some hash
> brownies it doesn't.
> 
> 
> This is utter bullshit. The only thing imageQuant might do that resembles
> virtual memory is simulating it in software to handle large images,
> something Fontrix did on the original Apple ][ years ago. There is no GS
> ability here. The disk cache you're referring to here uses full track reads
> and a normal cache implementation. Virtual memory has nothing to do with it.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -END OF FILE-

Note that the first email said "I'll leave that for tomorrow", yet the
second email was sent less than an hour later according to the mail headers.

Todd Whitesel
toddpw @ ugcs.caltech.edu