Re: Thoughts about Second Sight

[spector@vax2.concordia.ca (Mitchell Spector)]

In article ug0a@rzstud1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Alexander Siegfried) writes...
>
>Some thoughts about the Second Sight Board...
> 
>There seems to be plenty of enthusiasm out there concerning the
>Second Sight board from Sequential Systems. However, I tend to
>ask the question: Is it really worth it?

	I feel only time will answer that question, and although I do agree 
with many of your criticisms, I think there's an equal amount of potential to 
be found in this card.

>First, the promised JPEG display software that was said to ship
>with the board is not available in the final version. There is
>only 8 Bit TIFF and GIF (8 Bit). In other words, there is no
>True Color picture support yet! Speaking of the more advanced
	
	I was disappointed to hear that as well. Also the fact that this 
GS/OS graphic viewer will run under the standard 640x200x4 mode, only to
switch into native SS mode to view an image. It won't even be possible to
open multiple images on screen within windows, just view a full screen image. 
This will more or less be like "View.3200", a small desktop application that 
simply loaded in and viewed static 3200 color images. 

	Keep in mind though, that > 8 bit color support was a last minute
addition to the design. A video board that could display no more than 256
colors at once made it obsolite before it even shipped, so I pestered <g>
Jawaid to look into making it expandable in future. :) He looked into it 
and found a cheaper RAMDAC replacement (bt481 vs bt478) and a last minute 
change gave it 24-bit color support! In future, we _should_ see HiColor 
and TrueColor support for TIFF and JPEG, but just give Jawaid a chance to
tackle that (or at least a 3rd party person or company).

>graphic modes, what can you really DO with them? Answer: Not
>much. The board is too slow to manipulate pictures in modes
>beyond 320x200x256. In my opinion, they will be only for

	I certainly agree that 800x600 and 1024x768 have little use because
of the memory and CPU cycles they'd eat, but this is also generally the case
on IBM PCs and Macintosh systems, isn't it? Writing a game in these resolutions
isn't even plausable, yet a WYSIWYG word processor, DeskTop Publishing or
paint/draw application might work rather nicely. I'd even settle for these to
work in the 640x480 mode.

>viewing nice pictures. But what about the 320x200x256 mode?
>Even in this mode, you won't be able to do a smoothly scrolling
>(60 Hz) full screen action game, since the board is too slow
>for manipulating huge amounts of pixel and sprite data. A game
>like Doom also won't be possible on a Second Sight GS. A fast
>graphic board alone can't do the job, you also need a fast CPU,
>which even an accelerated GS does not have.

	BurgerBill claimed with a 10/64 ZipGS and Second Sight utilitizing
a reduced screen-size, a game such as DOOM would be possible. Certainly not
a simple task, but I wouldn't be quick to say _impossible_. I had an e-mail
conversation with John Carmack, president and head programmer at ID Software,
about the possiblity of Wolfenstein 3-D for the IIgs. He pretty much outright 
told me it just wasn't feasible and you'd never be able to do it with the GS's
limited hardware. Virtually everyone on this newsgroup agreed with him, and yet
in just a few weeks from now, an Apple IIgs version will be available!

>The software anounced to support the Second Sight is a bad
>joke. Who needs dozens of GIF/TIFF displaying programs? A
>screen saver supporting Second Sight? Ripped IBM graphics in
>DungeonQuest (if it will ever come out...)? Where is the
>software that enables the users to really USE the features of

	Your right, that list wasn't very impressive. Less than a handful
of titles and most of them graphic viewers. "DungeonQuest" won't interest me
unless it's a real-time 3D game like "Ultima Underworld" or "Arena". I'm also
turned off by recycled music and graphics, I like to see fresh original work
when someone creates a game or demo. This will probably be the case with dQ
if completed though...

>the board? Will there ever be an enhanced Platinum Paint? Will
>there ever be an enhanced GraphicWriter (hey, it took them 3
>years for an update...)? I guess all this won't happen. There
>aren't enough talented programmers left anymore to program the

	When I confronted Quality Computers about a Platinum Paint 
update a few months ago, their answer then was 'no'. They seem to 
believe the market would be too small by the time an update would be
finished and thus profits would be at risk. Understandable, but it's
unfortunate QC is starting to get cold-feet about dipping into the 
Apple II market these days.

>board, the same goes for GS artists (are there any?) to create
>cool GS specific graphics. 

	Well I'm here, but being only one person and not having
the tools to create new graphics (ie, an SS aware paint program)
doesn't help. Hmmm, I wonder if Dave Seah is still around and
using a IIgs...

>Sure, new text drivers for GNO are
>nice, true ANSI in Spectrum is nice (I'd rather like to see a
>REAL (!) VT100 emulation...), but is all this worth spending
>$180 for the card PLUS several hundreds of dollars for a new
>monitor?

	FYI: Apple IIgs users (at this point) will be _required_ to 
purchase the Second Sight with 1 megabyte DRAM. Super-Hi-Res emulation
will not work unless this amount is present on the card. The purchase 
of a new monitor is costly, unless you can find one used (although my
luck with second-hand CRTs has been rather poor, I'm still trying to
correct problems on my current one :/).

>What about software and hardware incompatibilities? Jawaid
>mentioned 3200 color mode won't be possible with the board.
>What about the demos and games that go deep into the hardware
>(Task Force, Rastan). What about this 15 FPS limitation? Will
	
	Nothing can be done about the 3200 color mode, but I heard
an updated firmware can and will improve shadowed graphic modes 
(both in image quality and frame-rate. At least I hope so).

>the dithered 16 colors in 640 mode really look that good (hey,
>this is the mode you work in all the day)? What about the ugly
>looking square VGA pixels you will have on a VGA monitor? I
>don't consider this display an enhancement over the actual GS
>RGB display, this is WORSE! I hope you can turn off the Second
>Sight while the GS is running...

	640 mode dithering won't look very appealing on an VGA/SVGA
display. The finer dot pitch will make dithered colors appear less
solid (part of the reason dithering works on the GS, is dependant
on little quirks in the AppleColor RGB). "MCGA" pixels is something
of a pet-peeve of mine, though you can't avoid that when working with
VGA/SVGA displays. :/ Turning it off? I wish that were possible, but
it seems you can't, and so the only way to do this is via a switchbox
between the card and GS's built-in RGB port. This way you can alternate
between the GS's old video signal and the SS signal. I Don't know how to 
build my own, so I wish Sequential Systems or Alltech could sell such a 
device pre-made (how about it, Jawaid? Tony?). Ideally, the best solution
is a patch to QuickDraw II, so emulating older GS SHR modes will be as
useful as emulating HR/DHR on a GS now (you won't want to use older modes
and will replace them with native SS modes).

>I fear the TurboRez might have been the better GS specific
>video board. It was by for more down to the existing GS
>hardware (and monitor), and also seemed to be a kind of a dream
>for GS programmers (despite the fact it was FASTER).

	If not for the high price tag and fact color and resolution 
depth didn't even approach the Second Sight, it would have been
an excellent card. Unfortunately the TurboRez is as available as 
the Duet, Avatar or ROM 4/"Mark Twian" now. (Up there in sillicon
heaven ;-)

>Well, on the other hand, there IS a new piece of GS hardware.
>So lets see what happens...

	Agreed, and given the choice between sticking with the
IIgs's stock graphic modes (320x200x16 / 640x200x4) I'm exteremly
glad we have the Second Sight available! I for one will take a
gamble and invest in one. Now, if only Sequential could clear their
backorders and finalize the firmware, I'd order it! :-)

>Christopher Heck

Mitchell Spector
m_spect@vega.concordia.ca / spector@vax2.concordia.ca