Re: Net piracy?

[jeffr@bmerha2a.bnr.ca (Jeffrey Robertson)]

In article <30a240$t5q@blackice.winternet.com>,
Richard Wifall <rwifall@NMSU.edu> wrote:
>In article <306ev5$jko@bmerha64.bnr.ca> jeffr@bmerha2a.bnr.ca (Jeffrey Robertson) writes:
>
>>   complexity (due to memory size) -- forget it.  They only value of the
>>   program is for itself, not for the techniques behind it.
>
>	Thats interesting, considering you can patent computer
>algorithms.  I guess the government doesn't agree with you.

I'm talking about these _particular_ programs, not programs in general.
Sheesh.  Credit me with some intelligence.  Heck, _read_ the blasted post;
I said as much the first time.

>
>>   Again, this all comes down to the nature of copyright law.  It's up to
>>   the holder to enforce it.  To use this silly couch analogy, leaving the
>>   couch on the sidewalk is _not_ abandoning it.  Not complaining when it's
>>   stolen _is_.
>
>	So its ok for me to walk into the local grocery store and
>steal whatever I can manage as long is they don't notice?  That _is_
>what you are saying.  Pardon me for disagreeing with you  (since you
>seem to take offense to that) but stealing is wrong whether you caught
>or not. 

Is there anyone else stupid enough to think this is my position?
I'm sorry, I've tried to be civil in my posts on this topic, but this guy
is clueless.  My whole argument is based on the simple _fact_ that
piracy is a software violation and not a theft.  Now either address that
argument (as my more intelligent opponents have) or SHUT UP!

>	Its funny that you would claim that piracy killed the Apple II
>when you support piracy.  (But I guess not everyone who reads this
>newsgroup likes Apple II's)

Oh, please!  I support the archiving of dead software, despite the
inherant copyright violation.  I do NOT support the pirating of viable
commercial software, like, say, GNO.  I also like Apple IIs, as I've
said in previous posts.  Now kindly start paying attention, and QUIT
PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH!!!

>	All software piracy hurts someone.  For a second why don't we
>ignore the abandonment arguement and see just who else might be hurt
>by piracy other then the copyright holder.  Say John Doe bought Ultima
>V. a few years back.  He doesn't have an Apple II anymore so he
>decides that he'll sell it.  Obviously if pirating of discontinued
>software was allowed to run rampant he wouldn't be able to sell his
>software for anything since people could get it free.  On the other
>hand if piracy was not rampant he might command a very high price
>because of the scarcity of his item.

Perhaps.  But this brings up an aspect of the software licencing issue.
Specificly, did Mr. Doe buy the software, or just the right to use it
on one machine.  Did he buy the right to rent or resell it?  I don't
know about Ultima V.  I doubt they were so fascist about it, but I
know some companies have tried (with varying degrees of sucess) to
use this kind of licence.

Still, this is an interesting point.  My gut feeling is that the law
doesn't care if Mr. Doe gets hurt in this way, but I can't think of
a non-software analogy.  I think this case would be handled by
having Mr. Doe sue the archivers (aka pirates).  He'd have to prove
that without their CD flooding the market, he'd be able to get
money for his disk.  Actually, he'd have to prove he'd be able to
get _more_ money.  That would be a tough sell to a judge.  The
archivers may just want to save time and pay the guy off, but I
suspect that they'd be able to "beat the rap".

>	This whole thread has really disheartened me tremendously.  I
>figured if there was one place that people would understand the value
>and purpose of copyright laws that it would be in the Apple II
>community where software is so scarce.  I guess there aren't many
>places in the world left with morals.

Actually, this thread proves a lot of people don't understand
copyright law, but shows little about the value people attach to it.
And you'd be well advised to not accuse people of lacking morals,
especially when your attacks on them involve misrepresenting their
positions.


Still spitting your words out of my mouth,
-- 
-------------------------------------+----------------+-----------------
Jeffrey Robertson                    |  jeffr@bnr.ca  |      BNR, Ottawa
"I speak for myself, not BNR" - Me   +----------------+       (Meriline)
"Verbing weirds language" - Calvin                      OC-48 FiberWorld