Re: Joe Kohn to moderate csa2 (was: METAL is now FREE!!!!!!)

[isc10327@nusunix1.nus.sg (ONG TAT-WEE)]

gudat henrik (gudat@avalon.physik.unizh.ch) wrote:
: 
: Imagine all would work together. We would have one spreadsheet, one
: sequencer, one paint program etc. NO competition. The end-user can
: choose between product XY and XY - he HAS to buy what this mega-company
: offers him, even if it's not that good. I also fear that the missing
: competition would result in a lazy attitude towards software upgrades.
: 
        Nope, I'm not saying that.  What I meant was that we'll have a
super Apple II (clone) with a fantastic Operating System to boot.  And
currently, we are having ONE super Apple IIgs and ONE good GS/OS.  But
our Apple IIgs needs some upgrade on its CPU speed, bus speed, graphics
and sound to catch up with the "big" guys out there.
        Since Apple Computers isn't going to give us that, why can't we
users run the show ourselves?  Bill Heineman loves the Apple II enough
to take things in his own hand and start the Avatar project.  If people
who are good system engineers or good software writers (I know Jawaid
writes good operating systems --- kudos to GNO!) can help along, then
the project can be a success.
	As for applications, there will still be competition 'coz I
don't mean Seven Hills, DreamWorld, Procyon, etc.... merge and come out
with only ONE of each product.  They still go ahead and publish their
software and compete.
	Basically, what we need to keep the Apple II future is a more
up-to-date machine.  I really think we need upgrades to our hardware and
architecture.

: Sheeez, what we need are MANY companies who let others alive and allow

	Correct, BUT can the Apple II market support this at the moment?
I don't think so.  I think what we need is a solid hardware to lure new
users, and only after expanding our user base (which has been dwindling
every year) then only can we talk about opportunities for MANY new
companies to enter the market and grow.

: The arguments above sound logic and nice but we're not living in
: Paradise. It's still money that rules the world.

	True, that's why if we have a large user base, people will see
the opportunities to make money from the Apple II.  That's when new
companies start forming and new products start releasing; then with
competition, more quality products will come; then more users will be
attracted and buy Apple II; then ........
	It's a cycle.  But we need a niche market first.  And if our
current foundation (the Apple II hardware) stays put and don't move.
Our situation is not going to improve.  Tweaking software performance
can only help THAT much.  After that, you're gonna need better hardware
to get a better machine.

: : 	All these bashing around isn't going to help things.  OK, I know
: : that The Manager and Switch It are direct competitors, but that's no
: : excuse for Seven Hills and Procyon to sour their relationship.  The
:  
: I agree

	Thanks!  Let's hope Seven Hills and Procyon will clear the air.
Cooperation can only help the two companies.

: So the whole Apple community depends on Bill heinemann. Fine. What
: happens when he or some of his engineers have a flu?

	Don't you think his Avatar is a way to get new life for the
Apple II?  We definitely can't hope to see a new II from Apple Computers
any more.  So are we going to sit with our current CPU and don't bother
about a new upgrade?
	As for flu, that's why he needs help.  And not only in terms of
manpower, but in terms of good engineers and good software writers.  Even
if the Avatar's hardware is super, it still needs good software to boot.
So for those who are able, why not give him a hand and take part in
revival of the Apple II?

: : ps: There are STILL Apple II users in Singapore and Malaysia!
: and in Switzerland, too!!!!! :)

	THREE CHEERS to that!! :)


	It's good to voice our ideas.  Do read Thye Chean's posts as
well.  Basically, we both are saying the same thing.  Apple II needs to
have a niche market to survive.  And I think I love his idea of a niche
market in games.  "We don't need 8 new word processors; but if you won't
mind even if I give you 8 new games right?"  <--  paraphrased from
ltchean :).  As a life example --- the C64.
	True, Ian said that C64 is still being produced and supported by
Commodore whereas Apple II isn't.  But if we have an Apple II compatible
that has even better capabilities than the current Apple II, that 3rd
party is willing to produce and support, people will still buy it and
our user base will still grow.
	So, instead of seeing the Apple II slowly fade away, why not
give the Avatar a chance?  Who knows, we might be able to capture a
niche market and survive on our own.


    ___ \   ___  / ___  ___/ |         / | David Ong Tat-Wee
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