Re: 8-bit unzip utility

[mdj <mdj.mdj@gmail.com>]

On Jun 28, 7:12 pm, pau...@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
> In article <1182918491.401217.270...@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
>
> mdj  <mdj....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 27, 7:13 am, pau...@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
> >>> Do I hear a ProDOS+ in the making?  ;-)
>
> >> It's called MS-DOS....   ;-)
>
> > Blasphemy! :-)
>
> > <<Insert legion of rabid foaming-at-mouth Apple II aficionado's
> > flaming Paul here>>
>
> :-) .... this confirms something I sometimes say:
>
>     "The Apple is not a computer, it's a religion" (*)
>
> So far I've thought this refers only to the Mac -- will this phenomenon
> spread to the Apple II world as well?
>
> (*) The followers of the Mac religion have been forced to take a number of
> severe blows though.  Such as IDE harddisks, MFM floppies, color graphics,
> Intel CPU's, and *two* buttons on the mouse.....  ;-)

:-) The above was a joke...

> >> And while we're at it, why not make ProDOS+ able to also deal with FAT
> >> formatted floppies?  The Mac can do that, so why not also the Apple
> >> II?  Sure, FAT is nowadays an obsolete file system (although not quite
> >> as obsolete as the ProDOS file system...)  but it's still widely used
> >> as a file system for portable devices: floppy disks, memory sticks,
> >> CF/SD/etc memory cards, and net disks (the only file system which can
> >> be accessed from Windows, Mac, and Linux is .... the FAT file system).
> >> Imagine a 3.5" floppy directly readable from Windows, Mac, Linux ...
> >> and ProDOS!
>
> > At a minimum you'd have to implement FAT16
>
> Yes!
>
> > +Long Filename support,
>
> That would be nice, but not necessary.  Any long file name created on
> some other computer will have a corresponding short filename which can
> be used on systems without long filename support, such as MS-DOS v6 and
> earlier - and perhaps some future ProDOS+.
>
> The major benefit here is the ability to use the same physical medium
> (most likely a 3.5" floppy) on both the Apple and other computers
> (Windows and Linux machines, and even the Mac!).
>
> > and preferrably FAT32. The code to handle this would easily be larger
> > than ProDOS 8. Then you'd need to implement MS-DOS style partition map
> > support, and drivers for any storage device that doesn't provide a
> > SmartPort 'device' corresponding to the physical volume, which most
> > don't. Supporting the Superdrive would be simple enough however.
>
> It's easy to dream, but the small amount of RAM on the Apple II does
> indeed imply some severe constraints.  So why not settle for something
> simple?  Such as: FAT-16, only short file names, only non-partitioned
> media such as floppy disks, and only the Superdrive.  Sure, long file
> names, FAT-32, partition map suport, and drivers for more modern
> storage devices would be nice - however, available memory remaining
> for your applications is even nicer..... :-)
>
> As a comparable example, consider the SD card support in the HP-49G+
> calculator: it supports only FAT-16 formatted cards and only short
> file names.  Most modern SD cards cannot be used since they're just
> too big - you'll have to find an old SD card of max 256 MBytes.  Or
> you could use that SD card of 16 MBytes which are delivered with many
> digital cameras and which needs to be replaced with a much bigger SD
> card anyway - 16 MBYtes is plenty of memory space for that calc.
> Nevertheless, that FAT-16 short filenames only SD card support in that
> calc allows you to easily transfer files to other computers.

OK, I didn't really consider that the goal of adding FAT to ProDOS was
data transport, but rather the ability to support a volume > 32MB in
size. If it's data transport you're interested in, making Ciderpress
portable is a much better option. Besides, there are already tools for
reading/writing FAT volumes on the Apple II, so data transport is easy
as long as you have a media device compatible with multiple platforms.

My preferred method is to convert to a ProDOS image on the other side.
I do it by writing it to a 1.44MB floppy and dropping it in my
Superdrive - others use the CFFA. You can also do it with SCSI and IDE
disks if you're really keen.

So really, this problem is better defined as a lack of a Ciderpress
equivalent on Mac and Unix. I find I can do anything Ciderpress does
with a handful of Unix utilities; others would prefer a GUI
environment however.

As I mentioned in another post, if you want to extent ProDOS, you need
to find more memory. It is not practical at all to change its present
memory footprint within the 128k Apple II memory space.

Matt