Eric Smith wrote:
Jim Brain wrote (perhaps quoting Jim Butterfield?):I was amazed both at how reachable Woz still is, and how the fate of Commodore and Apple may have been different. I don't remember the initial PET price and how it compared to the Apple II price, but I believe the PET was much higher-priced.The PET was introduced at a substantially lower price than the Apple II, as was the Radio Shack TRS-80. The Apple II probably had a lower manufacturing cost than the PET, even if you don't consider the integral video monitor and cassette drive in the PET, but that was not reflected in the retail pricing.
I guess I was comparing the Apple to the newer PET/CBMs, which were not nearly as inexpensive. So, Woz's quote makes sense. Chuck got Jack to price a machine lowball, while Jobs pushed the price of the Apple II as high as he thought he could sell it for. Not that I would argue with Woz, I just didn't think a plastic cased Apple II in default config would cost more than a 18 gauge metal cased PET with a monitor. Apple must have had some serious markup on the initial units.
The PET did use only off-the-shelf components. The only custom electronic components in either the Apple II or the PET were the masked ROMs.
Again, I wasn't thinking far enough back. You're right, the initial PET was a pretty base design. I was thinking the later PETs and the ColorPET work.
It brings up a question though. Chuck was a top engineer, and Woz would have not held anything back as he showed the Apple design to him. Since they appears to have used the same basic ingredients, what made Chuck think he could do it for less? Taking the markup off the MOS ICs? Was the comparison over what Jobs was going to sell the Apple for against what Chuck thought MOS/CBM could sell a PC for and make cash? I'm confused how Chuck would have thought himself able to cut lots of fat from the Apple design. The original Apple design is always touted as an incredibly elegant and simplistic design, wasting no silicon.
-- Jim Brain, Brain Innovations brain@jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times!