Re: Using Linux to get Apples surfing?

[The Wizard of Oz <wizard@emeraldcity.gov>]

	Hopefully my comments will help.

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 00:27:45 -0500, brad wrote:

> this is a side linux question (hey..i have apple //s on this network to
> ...and eventually they all ..hopefully again ....will be accessable via the
> inet re: www.lost-gonzo.com  still down

	Interesting project.

> anyway....you linux guru's i have an obscure bbs pkg for linux that runs on
> linux 1.2....kernal....but all i see is .source type archives that require a
> compiler...can someone point me to a link ..that i can just download said
> package ...unzip it and burn it to a cd and then just do a dummy
> install....? i've tried the newer packages..this particular obscure bbs pkg
> became abandonware prob about the time of 1.3..thus why i need something a
> 'dumb' non linux user can just install as an o/s w/o having a lot of
> experience and thus just install this pkg..viola

	What sort of compiler? There are lots available. C and C++ are certainly
available. Others like Fortran, ADA, and COBOL may or may not be included.

	In terms of installation there are a few ways to go. The first is to
create and run an install script. The second is if you want to restrict
the installation to RedHat category distributions. This would be to use
the rpm package. Next would be for Debian class distributions. They have
something called a .deb file. In essence all these solutions do the same
thing. They take some files, possibly manipulate them in some way, and
then put the result in the proper place. You should have at least an
intermediate level of knowledge of Linux before attempting this.

	Installing an OS may be a little more difficult. Something you may want
to do would be to have a bootable CD (something like Knoppix - use Google
to find it). The only things on the hard drive would be data and
configuration files. The programs and utilities would be on the CD.

> thanks
> 
> just need a link...plenty of links to the junk but it all assumes i know
> what i'm doing...and the newer packages (kernals) don't work

	Best thing to do is pick up some Linux magazines, attend *NIX user groups
for about a year, ask questions, read relevant HowTos (step by step guides
on how to get certain things to work), use Google a lot, and play around
with Linux.

> anyway
> back to apple // question here..
> 
> i've had apple // bbs pkgs in the past hitched up to the internet via a web
> server and rlogin etc (tpro 4.2f RPG BBS and fv/metal 4.0xev BBS..and
> applenet dos 3.3 bbs etc)..and a simple serial connection..so people could
> get into my old apple //gs's from the inet 1 user at a time locking up said
> 1 gs computer at a time

	Cool...

> i tripped over a package with source etc of a guy who PORTED believe it or
> not the tpro 4.2f RPG bbs to UNIX...(and i thought i did not have a life)
> 
> my guestion is....this port while just standard with no hooks...could i take
> it and
> 
> 1) add ansi menus etc rather then text menus it uses? ..maybe even proterm?

	There are ANSI file editors available. Look at Sourceforge or Freshmeat
and look up various keywords. Proterm files are a little more difficult
because (as I remember) Proterm did not always handle them gracefully.

>  2) and add a www front end (or graphics) to such an already ported apple //
> bbs to run off menu commands from said web page.....ie make it a web based
> front end...as long as he already has the hooks there bbs and client
> wise?..in other words ..graphic www page would act as a menu
> command...perhaps even add www pages to parts of the unix version port of
> tpro 4.2f rpg game areas as well?

	There are better ways to do it. Run an NNTP program (news server like
this one). Run a telnet server and a restricted shell for Apple//
machines. ssh would be better but I don't know of an ssh client for the
Apple//. Run Apache (or a smaller server) for access to the web. Find a
multi-user program to access the message databases for the graphic end.
You may want to look at what is out there already. Deja news and Google
are good examples of what you want to do. If you restrict your NNTP server
to local groups then you have a well documented alternative to a BBS. It
does the same thing, but with standard software.

> 3) and lastly.... his unix version etc would allow 256 users or some
> such...on the modified unix port of tpro 4.2f rpg..so it would be possible
> to setup his port of it  to look EXACTLY like the orig tpro 4.2f from back
> in the day...to the end user...but it would allow more then 1 user at a time
> like a current bbs...in other words..it would be multiline and people would
> get the experience of an apple // bbs from back ..even menu for menu ..if
> you wanted to set it up this way..like back ..in the day rather then just 1
> user at a time hogging up the 1 gs running the standard bbs...like i used to
> run it as a slave door in orig form on my a gs

	256 users is a limitation of the software. Linux itself can handle MANY
more simultaneous users than that. I have to ask if you intend access by
dial-up (them dialing into your machine), the internet (you have a high
speed line available to you), or both?

> anyway...was just a thought if i ever get the www.lost-gonzo.com back
> up...the tpro 4.2f RPG BBS is essentially a RPG game with the bbs built
> around it...so for historical purposes and ease of access...might be an
> interesting project...and if the hooks are there for bbs and game
> commands..i'd think it would just be a matter of a unix or linux type to
> tweak the menus...the hard part etc seems to be already done...ie the port

	Sounds like it's a little more than a tweak. The menus are the easy part.

> anyway thanks for any links to a 'installable" idiotproof  linux kernal 1.2
> stuff and your help or suggestions on this other tpro angle... (and you guys
> thought this was not gonna be apple // related at all..huh...linux thread
> and all)

	In the long term you may want to look at updating the software to run on
the newer kernels.

> brad
> former sysop lost-gonzo.com
> 
> (move to lovely mankato, minnesota...i need sysop help....)

	If you have the time there is a *NIX user group across the border in
Winnipeg. The meeting is going to be on the 14'th. I'm sure there is a
group closer to home but I don't have that information.

				Later
				Mike

P.S. The reaction of our group to Gno/Me was "Gee, you can put *NIX on
ANYTHING", and "Sure. The original UNIX only ran in four K.".