Re: Apple, Jobs, and the irony of it

["Charlie" <charlied@NOSPAMbboard.com>]

"Supertimer" <supertimer@aol.com> wrote in message
20030823174449.00586.00000490@mb-m02.aol.com">news:20030823174449.00586.00000490@mb-m02.aol.com...
> "Charlie" <charlied@NOSPAMbboard.com> wrote:
>
> >"Supertimer" <supertimer@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >supertimer@aol.com (Supertimer) writes:
> >> >> Also, the claim that the G5 is the first PC
> >> >> 64-bit processor is also wrong.  That title
> >> >> belongs to AMD's Opteron chip which was
> >> >> released in April, several months ahead of
> >> >> the G5.
> >> >
> >> >No, the 21066 "Low Cost Alpha" (LCA45) chip was the first 64-bit
> >> >processor specifically designed for use in PCs, such as the DEC Multia,
> >> >and was released in 1992 if memory serves, eleven years before the AMD
> >> >Opteron and IBM G5.  It was based on the 21064 design (the first
> >> >released Alpha chip) with an added memory controller.  The memory
> >> >controller had fairly poor performance, though.
> >>
> >> My mistake.
> >>
> >> I should have stated the first mainstream 64-bit
> >> processor as in a 64-bit processor that can run
> >> a mainstream OS natively.  The current
> >> mainstream operating system platforms are
> >> mainly MacOS and Windows.  Although it can
> >> be argued "what is mainstream" I consider
> >> mainstream to mean walk into Best Buy and
> >> walk out with software applications of your
> >> choice.
> >
> >Intel and Hewlett-Packard introduced the Itanium processor (64 bit registers
> >and 64 bit data bus) in May of 2001.  The Itanium 2 processor (64 bit
> registers
> >and 128 bit + 8 bit ECC data bus) came out in June of 2002.  The Itanium
> >processors run Window XP (64 bit Edition), Linux (4 distributions) and 2
Unix
> >versions (HP-UX and AIX).  The Itaniums also have a 32 bit compatibility
mode
> >so that it can run old operating systems.
>
> The Itanium runs 32-bit applications under emulation

How does the Opteron run 32-bit applications?  The AMD website and the Opteron
data sheet are vague about how it is done.

32-bit applications on an Itanium 2 run in "compatibility mode" which is a mode
that is NATIVE to the processor.

> and it does so slower than a good 32-bit Athlon XP
> or Intel's own 32-bit P4 for that matter.

True, but that still doesn't make the Opteron first <grin>.

> Note I said "a 64-bit processor that can run a
> mainstream OS natively" with NATIVE being the
> key.

Yes, and "native" is one of those words with various meanings when it comes to
computers.  To me, native, in this case, means that the ability to run 32-bit
software was built into the chip hardware.

By the way, the idea of emulating 32-bit software in a 64-bit chip, reminds me
that we really should be talking about the 65816 in the Apple IIgs emulating
8-bit software in a 16-bit processor, since this is CSA2.

Anyway, I am not trying to put down AMD's processors.  If fact my next computer
(I intend to build my own) will probably have a AMD processor.  I just don't
like when AMD (and for that matter most major companies) play loose with the
facts when marketing their products.

> Opteron is the first x86 64-bit processor that can
> do this.  G5 does this for Macintosh.  Intel has
> nothing comparable at the moment although they
> may have to rethink their stategy if Opteron is a
> success (or even if G5 is a success considering
> it will demonstrate the importance of migration).
>
> Opteron can run 32-bit applications faster than
> AMD's 32-bit processor.  G5 can run 32-bit Mac
> apps faster than the fastest G4.  Itanium runs
> 32-bit apps under emulation slower than a P4.
>
> There IS a difference.

Certainly, the Opteron was meant to be a transition chip (to make the
transition from 32-bit to 64-bit easier) and from what I've read they have
succeeded, but in my opinion it is not the first 64-bit processor to run a
mainstream operating system.

By the way, AMD says the Opteron is meant to be used in workstations and
servers (whatever that means) and they will have a 64-bit Athlon out in
September, 2003.

Charlie