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Re: My First Computer (was Computing Editorial)
"Glen" <lpepicel@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message...
> Well I haven't used any of the MS languages because I work in the unix
> camp but its my understanding the visual basic was in fact intended to
> be an easy to use language.
Reasonably. There are some complicated elements which they implemented into
later versions.
> I have seen all three of the MS languages (VB C# and Visual C++) for
> $99 in staples for the 'personal' edition there may be an acidemic
> edition that is even less.
Yes. There is also a 'freebie' version of VB which is restricted from being
a compiler.
> I would recommend python as a language that is very well suited to
> beginners. Perl (which is very similar) is the runner up.
Those languages mean very little to CP/M! :-(
> Both the python and the perl hello world programs are basic like:
>
> Here is pythons:
>
> $python
> >>> print 'Hello world!'
> >>> CTRL D to exit.
Indeed, I'll just use CBASIC to compile it! ;-)
> You just type python to start python. That puts you into the
> interperator. print is a function that takes a string.
>
> I don't know if a beginner would know where to find a good beginner
> language. Unless he/she just read this post because python is free at
> www.python.com and www.activestate.com.
Does that come with source code? It maybe time to write one for CP/M!
> The reason I think python is a great beginner language is because it is
> also a great advanced and a great expert language too. A number of real
> applications have been written in python including the red hat linux
> installer. So when the beginner wants to know "what is object
> orientated programming" or "how do I write large programs" or "how do i
> write or use a gui" or "how do i write a game" you can show them in
> python because Python scales up to real applications. In fact Python is
> more advanced than the popular Java in many ways. A person who has used
> all of pythons features will find Java easy. But java will not be very
> easy to a complete beginner becuase you need to know about more than
> just "print 'hello'" to understand the Java hello world.
Well I hope writing a python compiler is as easy as writing python programs
:-)
> In fact the people that wrote python including the projet leader Guido
> van Rossum want beginners to be able to use their language. These
> people are not elitists. They write and improve python and give the
> work away. In contrast, most languages come from either universitys or
> corporations or both.
No hobbyists?!?
> Well I think one big thing is that you want to avoid compilers because
> you will have 90% of the "questions" be the same: "why doesn't this
> compile". Programs that don't compile frustrate adults and children
alike.
Just give them an ol' COBOL compiler & tell them to type this program in!
:-)
> Basically you need a language that has distance from the hardware.
> basic does but a lot of 'real' languages do too. Unless you are tying
> to teach how hardware works you should give your beginner a break and
> let him think about hardware latter.
No that statement is for those who write Windoze programs, they are slower
than writing direct to the hardware, because they require crappy DirectX.
People should be introduced to the Ralf Browns interrupt guide before doing
ANY programming.
> I don't know a lot about kids. I'll be the first to admit. So I don't
> know the right age to start programming.
Any age! Though by todays standards they are programming to me the next
generation of Micro$-off & the faster those computers get the worse the
programming will be.
> Nalan Brushnell was talking about this in an interview on the Atari
> Redux (ps1 etc.). This is an explaination of why almost all early games
> are war games.
Nolan Bushnell? Does it seem to everyone else that Atari make a system,
throw in a couple of games then move on? The Atari 2600 must of had the
most! Atari XE possibly the least, since the Atari ST quickly replaced it.
Ross.