Re: Trouble with DOS 3.3 FST under GS OS

[mjmahon@aol.com (Michael J. Mahon)]

Matthew Carpenter replied:

>In article <20020709193517.01605.00004447@mb-cg.aol.com>, mjmahon@aol.com
>(Michael J. Mahon) wrote:
>
>> Matthew Carpenter wrote:
>> 
>> >   I'm not even alowed to format 5.25" disks as DOS 3.3, it's not an
>> >option in the initialization dialog box.  I've made DOS 3.3 disks before
>> >my IIGS stopped recognizing DOS 3.3 disks.  None of those disks which I
>> >myself made the computer format for DOS 3.3 are being recognized.  
>> >
>> >   It has been going on now for a short while. I just recently installed a
>> >program called DOS 3.3 copier so I could load DOS 3.3 programs from my
>> >proDOS formatted hardisk instead of the 5.25" disks, but since my IIGS
>> >wont recognize the disks I have no way of copying them or their contents
>> >to my hard drive.
>> 
>> Perhaps you made DOS 3.3 disks by sector copying--that way the OS
>> has no idea what format they are, and doesn't care.  FILE2DSK (sp?)
>> and other image-to-disk programs use the same method, so file system
>> is irrelevant.
>> 
>Nope.  I formated the DOS 3.3 disks by inserting the disk into the drive,
>double clicking the drive icon and having GS OS tell me that the disks are
>not of a recognizable format and asking me if I wanted to format them. 
>I'd click initialize and get the Disk format dialog box in GS OS so I tell
>it to format the disks for DOS 3.3 and GS OS did(of cource now DOS 3.3
>isn't a choice so I can't do it anymore..and I don't understand why it
>isn't, I still have the FST file installed and enabled).  Then I took some
>DOS 3.3 game files I had sitting on my IIGS's hard disk and copied them to
>the DOS 3.3 disks I had made, then I took my Apple //c to school along
>with the disks I had made to show them off to some friends in the
>cafeteria of my school(there was a TV there that I could hook it to) and I
>was able to show these disks off.  I did not use a disk copier.  I created
>the disks using GS OS and the DOS 3.3 FST.

This is interesting considering that the GS/OS DOS 3.3 FST is read-only.  ;-)

>As far as the DOS 3.3 copier, I can't use it now because it needs to have
>the DOS 3.3 FST working in order to work, which is not working so it
>complains about how the disks are of no recognizable format. If GS doesn't
>see the disks, then it won't either.  

Certainly the disk has to show up as a device, but many disk copiers
are simply sector/block copiers that copy the disk exactly to another disk.
It could even be a CP/M disk.  There is no _low-level_ format difference
between DOS 3.3, CP/M, and ProDOS disks (except that DOS disks can
have a non-default "Volume Number"--seldom, but occasionally needed).

So, usually, you can format a disk for ProDOS, then volume copy a DOS
or CP/M disk image onto it.

>This DOS 3.3 copier is supposed to copy the disk to an image file, if a
>game has multiple disks, it can copy them all into the one file, these
>file can then be launched off a ProDOS drive by some loader application
>that came with the copier which would make it so I would not need to pull
>out my old 5.25" floppies every time I wanted to play one of my DOS 3.3
>games.

Interesting.  Since all it needs is a disk image, there is no reason at all
why it should care about the high-level disk format. Put another way,
it should never have to read "files" from the disk, only sectors or blocks.
I haven't used it myself--just noting the apparent inconsistency.

Of course, when the disk image is used, _then_ DOS 3.3 code (or
something compatible with it) will be needed to make sense of the
file system on the disk image--but I would expect this to be established
by loading the DOS on the image as a function of the image "booter".

-michael

Check out 8-bit Apple sound that will amaze you on my
Home page:  http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/