Re: Accessing Appletalk file shares on a IIgs

[dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson)]

Mark Cummings <NOTfigjams@primus.com.au> wrote:

> I'll give it a go, although only new to the topic myself.

I'll fill in a few details.  :-)

> I have two GS's AppleTalk'ed to two Mac 68K's. I will say that there is 4
> methods of running the GS side, I have only used one of these, described
> below. You can also boot through the Mac, but you would be best reading
> how to do that in the System 6 User Manual. (I have this if you need more
> info, perhaps I could photocopy/scan a few pages, just so you can try it)
> 
> On the GS side: (BTW this is for a HDD or possible 3.5 floppy setup)
> 1. In the control panel, enable Appletalk in slot 7.
> 2. I have ROM1s, and so this may be a little different than ROM3, but I have
> Slot 2 set for "Your Card". Which BTW, you can use a card in that slot for
> another purpose. I have a HDD there, recently moved from slot 6 or 7. Got
> this tip from Kim Howe on A2.Central. Thanks Kim.

The above is correct for ROM 1 (or 0).

For a ROM 3 IIgs, you must set either slot 1 or 2 to "AppleTalk".  You
should leave slot 7 set to "Your Card".  The AppleTalk slot (1 or 2)
cannot be used for a normal I/O card at the same time.

(There is an "AppleTalk" option on slot 7 of the ROM 3, but it is only
there for compatibility with some badly written 8-bit software which
assumes the AppleTalk firmware is always in slot 7 for the IIgs.  If you
enable AppleTalk via slot 7 you must _also_ enable it in either slot 1
or 2, which means you are tying up two slots.)

An additional point: you must have at least 1 MB of RAM to be able to
run the AppleShare client software.  (A bare bones ROM 3 is sufficient,
but a ROM 1 will need at least a 1 MB memory expansion card.)  You will
need more RAM than this if you want to run even moderate sized
applications.

> 3. In the modem port mini DIN-8 connect your LocalTalk adapter, if using
> several machines the end ones get the terminating resistor. Or as you are
> using the Printer cable that also should work, I have been told, but never
> done.

It is worth mentioning here that the adaptors must be connected in a
daisy-chain.

The genuine Apple LocalTalk connectors have automatic termination
(activated if there is nothing plugged into network connector).  You
only need to worry about termination resistors if you are using
third-party adaptors such as PhoneNet (which were a quarter to half the
price of the Apple ones, and use cheap telephone cable).

A printer cable (such as the one used to connect an ImageWriter II to a
IIgs) does work in most cases, as long as you are only connecting two
machines, of course.  There are some devices (notably some HP printers)
which expect a proper adaptor, and won't work with a direct connect
cable.

> *alternatively use SLOT 1 in the control panel and the printer port
> connector.
> 4. For System 6.0.1 you need to add the AppleTalk driver, and HFS.FST by
> running the /INSTALL disk and updating the boot disk (I guess you can do
> this with a floppy, but space might be a problem).

You do not need to install HFS.FST in order to access a file server.  It
is only used with HFS volumes connected directly to the machine.

The connection to the file server requires AppleShare.FST, which is
installed as part of the "Network: AppleShare" option in the Installer.

"Add the AppleTalk driver" is somewhat of an understatement.  The
software required to support the AppleShare client includes an FST, at
least two drivers (more if you want printing as well), and at least two
INITs.

Space on a 3.5" floppy is a big problem: you cannot set up an 800K 3.5"
disk which has the full AppleShare client software and a reasonably
complete GS/OS installation.  The usual solution is to remove Finder
from the system disk and run it from somewhere else (or avoid it
completely).  There is an option in the installer to set up an 800K boot
disk with this configuration.

Having a hard drive on the IIgs makes things a lot easier.

> BTW there is an issue with the HFS.FST, there is a patched version
> available.
> 5. To see the Mac's hdd, reboot the IIGS, go to the control panel in System
> 6 and open the AppleTalk CDEV (I think that's what it's called ?).

The graphical Control Panel NDA (New Desk Accessory) has the AppleShare
CDEV (Control Panel Device), so yes that is right.

You can't log onto a server using the text-based Control Panel CDA
(Classic Desk Accessory).

> then log onto the Mac and select the shared drive you wish to use. It will
> then appear on your desktop.
> *step 5 can only be done after setting up the Mac (and re-booting it) see
> below...
> 
> On the Mac side:
> This is for System 7.6.1, but I guess similar on other OS's.
> 1. Go to Control Panel... Sharing Setup..., put in a Owner name in Network
> identity, and a Macintosh Name in the appropriate box.

In later systems, "Sharing Setup" was renamed as "File Sharing", but the
other details are the same.

> 2. On the File Sharing... click Start, close the window.
> 3. Go to the chooser and turn AppleTalk on. close window.

If you are using Open Transport (which you must be with Mac OS 7.6 or
later), you should use the AppleTalk control panel to turn AppleTalk on
and off.  The Chooser's setting for AppleTalk doesn't always work
properly.

> 4. Go to the HDD you want to share. click it. Select File... Sharing...,
> click on the box to share it.

For later systems, the sharing setup is done under the Get Info submenu
in the file menu.

> select owner and cross all the boxes for now. crossing "make all folders..."
> is optional, but I would initially.
> 5. Go to Control Panel... AppleTalk and select the port to use (modem or
> printer). you can enable AppleTalk under the options button now if you
> didn't before. close window.
> 6. make sure to connect the other LocalTalk adapter or parallel cable to the
> GS in the appropriate port.

At some point in the above procedure, you may also want to create a user
for the IIgs.  If you are the only person using the two machines, then
it is OK to log in as the owner, but that gives you full access to
everything on the server.  For day to day use, it is a good idea to
create a special user account for the IIgs to use as its login ID, which
has more restricted access.

You create user accounts with the "Users & Groups" control panel under
Mac OS 7.x and 8.x, or the "Users & Groups" tab of the "File Sharing"
control panel under Mac OS 9.x.

> 7. re-boot the Mac.

A few other points:

If you want to be able to log onto the Mac, you must boot via GS/OS.  If
you boot directly into ProDOS-8, you can only access local volumes.

Once you have booted into GS/OS and logged onto the server, you can also
access the server from ProDOS-8 software, as long as you launch that
software without rebooting (i.e. using GS/OS's facility for running
ProDOS-8 directly).

There are some restrictions when accessing the server from ProDOS-8, the
main one being that the shared folder or hard drive on the server _must_
comply with ProDOS-8 naming restrictions (letters, period and digits
only, no more than 15 characters), with the same rule applying to any
folders or files to be accessed by ProDOS-8 applications.  You might
also run into problems if you have a large number of local volumes
and/or several mounted server volumes.

GS/OS itself doesn't have any naming restrictions for AppleShare
volumes, but some GS/OS applications might not be able to handle volume
names, folder names or file names which go beyond the naming conventions
of ProDOS.

> As far as ProDOS is concerned, I cannot help at all. I am just starting to
> play with different user's now, then I'm hoping to do AppleTalk zones, if
> someone can explain how to set them up.

There isn't much point setting up AppleTalk Zones unless you are a large
organisation with computers spread around a reasonably wide area.

To set up zones, you must have a Mac running Apple's "AppleTalk Internet
Router" software (which has nothing to do with what we currently think
of as the "Internet" - in this context the term just means that the
software acts as a router between two networks), or similar software
which is able to act as a router for the AppleTalk protocol, and which
provides support for zones.  (I believe that WinNT Server can do this,
but I haven't encountered any others.)  I very much doubt that you can
still get Apple's router software, and I'd also be surprised if it ran
on any recent system versions.  Some of the hardware AppleTalk routers
might provide zone support, but it isn't much use without a user
interface to configure it.

In addition, you must be using an Ethernet or other phase II AppleTalk
network for zones to be useful.  A LocalTalk network segment can only
appear in a single zone.

A typical zoned configuration might be to have an Ethernet going around
the entire organisation, with several zones to logically group
appropriate machines on the Ethernet.  LocalTalk segments can be
connected to a machine running an AppleTalk router, and the segment can
be in a designated zone.

Zones can span multiple physical networks.  They are often used as
department or locality names, but might also be useful for functional
divisions which may be scattered around the network.

(Note that you cannot use Apple's "LocalTalk Bridge" software if there
are any genuine AppleTalk routers present on the network.)