Re: Godel Goofed? Nope.

[olcott <olcott@qwest.net>]

Roy and/or Janet Miller wrote:

> Paul Schlyter wrote:
>
> > In article <3A8C972E.68BF3CD3@inetnebr.com>,
> > Roy and/or Janet Miller  <millers@inetnebr.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, I do. However, since you have claimed that statements of Christ,
> > > as recorded in scripture were the words of the evil one, that means
> > > that you are a son of the father of lies.
> >
> > Both those who claim that the Bible is the "words of God" and those
> > who claim it's the "words of Satan" are liars really.
>
> I don't make that claim. The Bible does: "All Scripture is given by
> inspiration of God...." 2 Timothy 3:16, and "knowing this first, that no

This is not at all one-and-the-same thing as the bible is
the word of God... After seeing a beautiful sunset a man
is inspired to write a great play about racial injustice...

>
> prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never
> came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by
> the Holy Spirit" 2 Peter 1:20-21, and "as also our beloved brother Paul,
> according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all
> his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things
> hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own
> destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures" 2 Peter 3:15-16,
> and finally, the most common phrase in the Old Testament is some form of
> "The word of YHWH" Therefore:
>
> 1. Do not call men liars before you accurately understand what they mean by
> what they say, otherwise you are a liar when you brand them so;
> 2. Do not put yourself so quickly in the category of the above quote
> "untaught and unstable who twist to their own destruction"
> 3. The historic Christian position has always been that the Scripture are
> both the words of men, and completely the Word of God. Thus, one can find

Yet scripture itself does not directly support this position.
Historically, everyone "knows" that Eve gave Adam an Apple,
yet scripture does not support this either.

>
> differing vocabularies, differing writing styles, three different languages
> used (Hebrew, Aramaic, Koine Greek), differing issues, but the teaching is
> the same.
>
> To the last point, "untaught and unstable people" often "twist ... the
> scriptures" by failing to see that sometimes, exactly the same thing is
> said, but two differ authors use terms in such a fashion that a cursory
> reading leads the "untaught and unstable" to conclude that the authors are
> contradicting one another.
>
> Case in point, Paul and James on the subject of justification by
> grace/works. The both quote the same OT passage, and use it to claim
> justification by grace (Paul) or works (James). Contradiction! No, Paul is
> claiming that one is justified (declared righteous by God) via grace,
> whereas James is claiming that one proves one's justification by grace
> through works. No contradiction at all. Just closer, more careful reading.
>
> > As a matter
> > of fact, the Bible is the words of men.....
>
> A half truth is a lie. Prove that the Bible isn't what it says it is, and
> do so either through email, or posting elsewhere. BTW, you said you were
> agnostic. The word means "a" negative "gnostic" one who knows; translation:
> ignorant, one who has no knowledge. Now you claim to know something. Make
> up your mind, either you don't know, or you do know (or think you know.)
>
> >
> >
> > In another few thousand years, Christianity may very well be an
> > extinct religion -- like the religions of ancient Greece and Rome are
> > extinct today.
>
> I'm wouldn't be surprised to hear you say that you hope so. However, under
> the rigorous anti Christian persecutions by the atheistic rulers of the
> Soviet Union for 75 years, Christianity has become stronger than ever.
> Ditto in mainland China, and other communist countries. It still exists, in
> Iraq and Iran where centuries of total societal rejection hasn't stamped it
> out. The Turks practiced genocide on the Christian Armenian people, and yet
> both the people and the faith survives. And Christians don't have the ethic
> unity that has helped the Jews to remain a people. So, time will tell, but
> I am confident that the faith, which is still spreading and growing
> (outside Europe) will survive. I personally think that you suffer from a
> provincial attitude in this area.
>
> Roy
>
> >
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > Paul Schlyter,  Swedish Amateur Astronomer's Society (SAAF)
> > Grev Turegatan 40,  S-114 38 Stockholm,  SWEDEN
> > e-mail:  pausch at saaf dot se   or    paul.schlyter at ausys dot se
> > WWW:     http://hotel04.ausys.se/pausch    http://welcome.to/pausch