Re: Asimov Site

[Roy and/or Janet Miller <millers@inetnebr.com>]

Paul Schlyter wrote:

> > and frankly, I like it better than yours Paul.
>
> Yes, I've understood that you don't enjoy moving around.

LOL, you are right on that Paul. I was born in New Jersey, raised in Pennsylvania,
attended college in Tennessee, worked in Georgia, did graduate school in Mississippi,
and served churches in Kansas and Nebraska. Now, if you were to place a map of the US
over a map of Europe, I think you'd find that I've lived over a good portion of a
continent.

>
>
>
> >> with flaws, rather tha acknowledging the benefits other systems may have.
> >
> > When one has been attacked, they do not normally start applauding the attacker.
> > but since Sweden has a long history of being an aggressor nation in Europe,
>
> <BIG LAUGH>
>
> How many wars did YOUR country involve itself in during the last 160 years?

How many of those were wars of aggression? Twice in this century we pulled western
Europe's chestnuts out of the fire, and spend our wealth keeping a third war from
starting. Meanwhile, Sweden traded with the Nazis and the Kaiser and made big bucks off
of the deaths of millions. Nice country Sweden.

>
>
> THINK before you post, will you?  Our "long history" as an "aggressor nation"
> in Europe ended more than 250 years ago,

And Sweden was an ally of Napoleon, and latter, when the winds shifted, joined an
alliance against him. If you are an ally of an aggressor, that makes you an aggressor.
BTW - the US was a nation at that time, and we had self governing communities here since
the early 1600s - almost 400 hundred years.

> before your country even existed.
> It ended when our king of that time, Karl XII, was defeated by Russia and
> then shot to death, probably by one of his own people.
>
>
> > perhaps Paul doesn't have the experience to know what it like to be attacked.
>
> If you automatically view a disagreement as an "attack", and start to
> invoke Swedish kings who acted like dictators some 300 years ago just
> because of that, I think you have a problem.

Tell that to the hundreds of dead men still trapped in the Arizona.

>
>
> >> Read
> >> his response to my description of our "everybody's right", which
> >> enables people to freely walk around as long as they don't destroy
> >> and don't disturb.  Roy pointed out that this freedom to move around
> >> has its restrictions because one isn't allowed to destroy or disturb
> >
> > I believe you are referring to someone else's post. I just double checked, and I
> > don't see any response that I have made to your comments on that issue. Midnight
> > sun in your eyes? I have noticed however that you have a real streak of hatred
> > toward the United States. Hatred isn't a positive value.
>
> I don't have any "hatred" towards the US, but I don't unconditionally
> admire it either.  It has its good as well as its bad sides - all
> countries have their good and their bad sides.  Also, countries which
> are superpowers of their time often tend to act in arrogant ways.
> This applied to Sweden some 300 years ago, and it applies to the US
> today.

I hate to say this, but I agree with you here. Our current leaders seem to wish to
establish a Pax Americana, we us as the successor to the British Empire. I'm not an
isolationist, but American troops and equipment should come home. We can still be allies
without having occupational forces in Europe.

> As usual, power corrupts.
>
>
> >> (which of course is correct, but it appeared he thought of it as a
> >> disadantage rather than mutual care), and then he concluded that he
> >> preferred to remain on his own land
> >
> > Land, in English has more than one meaning. I do prefer my land, that
> > is, my country, to any other that I know of. There is more freedom here,
> > as I value it, than in any other country.
>
> You're not referring to the freedom to hike out in the woods, are you?   <g>

I'm a boy scout leader. I've done a lot of hiking. On public land (of which we have a
lot) and private land (after getting permission first - it's only polite.)

>
>
>
> > The sad thing is that it is gradually being taking away, as government
> > takes more and more control of our lives, to protect us from ourselves,
> > as though we were children.
>
> Are you here referring to efforts towards increased gun ownership control?
> Yep, it's indeed terrible to not have the freedom to shoot your fellow
> human beings.....  <g>

With three semi automatic 7.62.39 mm rifles, two semi automatic .22 rifles, three bolt
action 7.62x51 mm rifles, a 12 ga shotgun and a 9 mm pistol, strange that I've never had
a "chance" to shoot a fellow human being....

>
>
>
> >> and everyone else should remin on
> >> theirs (a thought: many people don't have any land of their own --
> >> where should they go?).  He didn't claim his system, was the ultimate
> >> "freedom" though....
> >>
> >>> Corporatism could be said to be the extreme of capitalism, as Stalinism
> >>> could be said to be the extreme of Marxism. In the most specific sense,
> >>> corporatism is the philosophy that not only should the law allow business
> >>> entities with no individual accountability, but that these same
> >>> corporations are in some way arbitrarily superior to any other citizen. That
> >>> these corporations have unwritten privileges to negotiate their own taxes,
> >>> and an open door to the legislature that few citizens enjoy. Guess these
> >>> aren't facts though. Well, blind or stupid, you'll still hurt as much as the
> >>> rest of us. That kinda makes me feel better.
> >>
> >> I.e. it's just an example of "...money is justice..."
> >>
> >>>> 1. I don't think that capitalism "sucks", but some capitalists are rather
> >>>> nasty people
> >>>
> >>> Ah. The idea that all things exist to be bought and sold, is ok with you.
> >>> Even though it means people also, and discovered land whether or not there
> >>> are indigenous people on it (they are just another resource to be exploited
> >>> on said land anyway!). No, not "some" capitalists, MANY capitalists are
> >>> nasty people. A large minority at least, and that is being generous.
> >>
> >> Perhaps Capitalism tranforms people to become like that?  Give any nice
> >> ordinary fellow a very large amount of money, and watch him transform into
> >> something else....
> >
> > LOL, hey Paul, I've got news for you big boy, there are millions of capitalists in
> > America,
>
> There OUGHT TO be, in a country with 200+ million people and
> Capitalism as its primary political system -- oughtn't it?
>
> Likewise there are millions of Communists in Russia.  Yes, they are
> still there: after some 10 years of savage Russian Capitalism, they
> want the old system back.  It's understandable, because to them life
> was better back then.  That's also why Michail Gorbachev, who became
> quite popular in the west, isn't popular at all in Russia.
>
>
> > and few of them have a very large amount of money. A capitalist is someone with
> > capital,
>
> Does that make the beggar who just got a few dimes a Capitalist?
> He does indeed have a capital, even if it's quite small....
>
>
> > and believes in investing it. Like people who open computer stores, or shoe
> > repair shops, or who have an IRA or 401K that is invested in securities.
> > They are all capitalists.
>
> Not necessarily -- but if they mamage to get their stores into the stock market,
> they become capitalists of course.

Very wrong Paul. Go take a few courses in basic economics. Capital is money invested, it
doesn't have to be invested in multinational corporations. It can be invested in a
street vendors business.

>
>
> A capitalist isn't anyone who makes money on their own work.  The term "capitalist"
> is somewhat fuzzy, but has at least two different meanings:
>
> 1. Capitalist - someone who supports Capitalism as a political system.
>
> 2. Capitalist - someone who has capital and invests it with the purpose to get
>    still more capital.
>

That's what I said. Exactly. However, you seem to think that capitalist don't also work.
Wrong.

>
>
> > And in this country, the truly wonderful thing is that that is spreading.
>
> Spreading WHERE?   Isn't it already around everywhere?
>
>

More, and more people here are investing, owning pieces of companies. Some of our bigger
companies are owned by the labor unions that work for those companies.

>
> > Oh, in America
>
> Where in America?  North America, Central America or South America?
>
> This is one example of US arrogance: they call their country
> "America",

It isn't arrogance. Europeans called us Americans. And we were the FIRST state in the
two continents. We were and are the United States of America, and from that title, and
it's historical accuracy, what name should we give ourselves? Columbians?

> as if the other countries in America (like Canada, Mexico,
> Brazil, Argentina, Peru, etc) just didn't matter.  True, the US is
> the American country with the largest population.  Now suppose that
> the European country with the largest population, Russia, started to
> call itself "Europe" - what would you think about that?  Wouldn't you
> consider that an arrogant behaviour by the Russians?

I think you are showing your arrogance in 1) ignoring the history, and 2) assuming that
any other american republic wishes to be called Americans.

>
> > Paul, the percentage of the population that owns it's own home (land) is at
> > an all time high. I suspect that countries where the percentage is low are
> > countries with differing economic systems.
>
> ....or countries which offers an alternative.  It's not necessary to own the
> land you live on -- owning it has both advantages and disadvantages.  I own
> a (small) piece of land too, so I know...
>
>

Ah, but it is what is rightfully called the American dream - to own you own home.

Not to borrow it for a time for an exchange of money.

Roy

>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Paul Schlyter,  Swedish Amateur Astronomer's Society (SAAF)
> Grev Turegatan 40,  S-114 38 Stockholm,  SWEDEN
> e-mail:  pausch at saaf dot se   or    paul.schlyter at ausys dot se
> WWW:     http://hotel04.ausys.se/pausch    http://welcome.to/pausch