Re: A Link of note

[pausch@saafNOSPAM.se (Paul Schlyter)]

In article <394F7620.D436AAB9@swbell.net>,
Rubywand  <rubywand@swbell.net> wrote:
 
> Paul Schlyter writes ...
 
>> Why would "computer as a hobby" imply hardware experimentation?
> 
> As mentioned just above, it need not. Someone who pours over each issue
> of Dr. Dobbs and uses his computer only to try out the program snips listed
> (and, perhaps, sends in his own program snips) is, essentially, in hobby mode
> and might reasonably be considered to be engaging in computer use as a hobby.
> 
> On the other hand, if the Dr. Dobbs devotee also uses the computer to
> play Colossal Cave, then, it is no longer correct to say that 'computer use'
> equals 'hobby'. (Game playing is not a hobby any more than is watching TV or
> listening to classical music.)
 
So if I poured over Dr Dobbs the way you described above, trying out
alomst everything I found there, but happened to play Colossal Cave once
or twice, then I no longer have computers as a hobby?
 
And what if I *create* my own adventure games, and give them away
for free?
 
>> Couldn't a hobby involve mostly software?  E.g. not merely trying out the
>> "language of the month" but actually implementing one?
> 
> That is an interesting slant.
> 
> My suggestion is that what matters is the purpose/motivation of computer
> use. If it is, mainly, to 'use the computer', then, you probably have a
> hobbyist. If it is to write useful programs, balance a checkbook, organize a
> library, print out forms, compose music, ..., or play games, then, you have,
> primarily, a computer user who may or may not occasionally employ the
> computer in some hobby activity.
 
In my book, a "computer user" is someone who does *not* write his own
programs, but only uses software written by others.
 
>>> There were, certainly, some hobbyists within small computing. However,
>>> the vast majority of those involved were genuine users.
>> 
>> Not in 1977 -- unless you count those who puhcned cards and handed in
>> the card deck to be run at some mainframe.  But in the micro scene,
>> there wasn't hardly anything in 1977 for those who wanted to be just users.
> 
> There is a natural tendency to lump the years 1975-1977 together and
> think of them as the Byte-Altair-SWTP- ... pre-Apple II times when everyone
> was fiddling with S-100 boards. However, it just is not the case. By 1977,
> bunches of complete small computer systems (OSI, TRS-80, ...) running
> high-level languages, including BASIC, were being sold, many with disk
> drives.
 
Yes, but these computers had almost no end-user software.  The owners of
these computers had to write their own software: that makes them
developers, not users.  If they did it for free, at their spare time,
then it was a hobby.
 
> True, you did not find anything like the quantity of software that would
> be available just five years later; but, there was still lots of small
> computer software, including games, being produced and sold to home users,
> universities, and businesses.
 
Games and small utilities was all there was back in 1977.  You'll
have to wait another few years, perhaps to 1979 or 1980, to find any
genuinely useful applications generally available.  Some people think
this didn't happen until VisiCalc appeared.
 
>> There were a lot of hobby programmers out there, and there proably still
>> are.
> 
> There may be. However, if you program as a hobby, then _that_ is the
> hobby. Unless all you do on the computer is hobby programing, you are
> still a computer user not a "computer hobbyist".
 
Even if I use the computer, for free, at my spare time?
 
The "computer" isn't merely the hardware: it's the software too, you know.
 
> Simply choosing to engage in an unpaid activity does not make the
> activity a hobby.
 
Then exactly WHAT decides of something is a hobby or a profession?
 
> As you say, some of the software was probably produced by users who
> enjoy programming so much that it is a hobby activity. And, some of
> the software was produced by users who, chiefly, program as a means
> to an end -- i.e. in order to produce a desired program.
 
People who program just to reach a specific goal (e.g. to program a
phone book, or something), and then cease programming, such people
will most likely write quite a horrible program...
 
> In any case, the original spark for all of this discussion was Bill
> Gates's use of the term "computer hobbyist" to describe users of BASIC
> in 1977. After reviewing magazines from that period it is more plain
> than ever that he was mistaken. Calling small computer users "hobbyists"
> was an insult which, very likely, meant that most of what he said was
> ignored.
 
Why is it an insult to call someone a hobbyist?
 
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In another of my interests - astronomy - there's a strong amateur
movement: plenty of people buy, or build, their own telescopes, and
then watch the skies just for enjoyment, or even to discover new
comets and novae (about 1/3 of all newly discovered comets are
discovered by amateurs).  They do this for free, at their space time,
and they fund all their equipment themselves.  Sometimes there will
pop up a discussion about exactly what makes someone an "amateur
astronomer", however almost all skywatchers agree on that it's no
insult to be called "amateur astronomer".  There are even some
professional astronomers who also are amateur astronomers -- on
*their* spare time, when they watch the sky just for enjoyment, not
because some research programme requires it.
 
People outside the amateur astronomy movement often think it's an
insult to be called an "amateur": to them, "amateur" is the same as
"incompetent".  But "amateur" has another meaning: someone who does
something, not for profit or to make a living, but solely for the
love of the subject.  Actually "amateur" really means "lover"
(compare with the french "amour" and spanish and italian "amore").
 
Couldn't the word "hobby" be interpreted similarly to "amateur" ?
 
(I just looked up the etymology of the word "hobby": it seems to
have originated in English, as a nickname for "Robert")
 
-- 
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Paul Schlyter,  Swedish Amateur Astronomer's Society (SAAF)
Grev Turegatan 40,  S-114 38 Stockholm,  SWEDEN
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