Re: Let's CLEAN this Apple II community UP completely

["Ernest" <ernestls@home.com>]

Roy and/or Janet Miller wrote in message <3920CE21.68614D35@inetnebr.com>...

>Who? Name them. Tom, Ernest, name the people who took the software. Name
anyone who
>complains here and takes the software that isn't yours to give. Name them
boys.

You know that I can't name them, so you've got me there. I was making a joke
mostly, and a bit of a point too, I guess. My view on human nature may be
cynical but, sadly, correct more often than not. I guess that's not always
so funny.

>Actually, Ernest, you and Tom seem to be a bit controlling. Or attempting
to do so.

You know, Roy, I thought about this a little, and I have to disagree with
you except on one point. I mentioned before that you, and I have a choice in
this matter, as to whether or not we go to one of these web sites, and
download the software in question. In no way, shape or form am I pushing you
or anyone else in this newsgroup to do something that you don't want to do.
The software is there but you can choose to not use it. There are other
people whom I refer to as the "controlling types" who want to make my choice
for me, and that annoys me.

However, I will agree with you that I could be considered controlling, in
one area, only because in spirit, I'm in favor of freely distributing all
the old, old software, with or without the legal permission of the original
owners. I know it sounds raw when I toss it out onto the table like that but
that's my view. The old software on these ftp sites is much more useful, and
the original creators are much better served, by placing it in the hands of
people who will use it, rather than in the hands of a few collectors who
lord over it like it's made of gold but rarely ever use it.

>There are lots of people Ernest, who help, without giving away what isn't
theirs to
>give away. But we know how moral/legal/ethical questions bore you.

Most of the people in this group help, without giving away what isn't theirs
to give, and I am sincerely thankful for it. Also, moral/legal/ethical
questions hardly bore me, Roy, or hadn't you noticed? For me, though, this
"piracy" topic  is a non-issue where morality is concerned. Sure it's
legally wrong to freely distribute 20 year old protected software but I
don't see it as morally wrong.

>It's interesting Tom. I haven't mentioned my profession by name until
today, in
>response to you. Why are you all hung on my being ordained? I don't make a
big
>thing of it, why do you? I rarely even use the title "Reverend." Most of
the people
>in my church address me as "Roy," some as "Pastor Roy" or "Pastor Miller."
You make
>a comment in your post about "bible slappers" (the normal term is Bible
thumpers),
>and yet, I've never even quoted the Bible in these posts. Interesting.
Someone has
>some issues they need to deal with.

Roy, your ethical views on the free distribution of old, protected software
make more sense to me, now that I know that you're a Minister/Pastor. My Dad
is a Minister, and he's a good man also, so I find it hard to see fault with
your reasons for being against piracy. You might say that your religious
views have nothing to do with your view on software distribution but if
you're anything like my Dad, you're religious beliefs compell you to speak
up when you see something happening that's wrong. I guess that's my way of
saying that I'll cut you some slack -but only a little. Hehe.

>I don't hate you Tom. I pity you. And I'm not frustrated. I'm saddened that
you
>choose to waste your time and talents in hurting the Apple ][ community
instead of
>strengthening it. I'm saddened that people like Ernest don't see how your
piracy in
>the long run will hurt them rather than aid them.

How will it hurt the A2 community? Since we're talking about vintage
equipment here, it seems logical to me that the only people who would be
writing new software for an Apple II would be hobbiests, who do it for fun
or glory. I find it hard to believe that anyone would write new A2 software
for money but if they did, they could choose to sell it on their own web
pages, as is the case with ProTerm, etc.. I'm trying but I just can't see
how these FTP sites are harming anything. In fact, all that I can see are
positive effects. Lots of people like me are having fun, and learning new
things when we use these great old programs. How is that harmful? Who is
being hurt here?

Ernest